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Thread: Reds Re-Sign 1B/3B Mike Costanzo and OF Welinton Ramirez

  1. #1
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Reds Re-Sign 1B/3B Mike Costanzo and OF Welinton Ramirez

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...d=costan001mic
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...d=ramire001wel

    I'm glad Costanzo's back. He's good minor league depth, and if he ends up in AA, it could really get the Pensacola fans excited about their new team. As for Ramirez, I had figured he retired or something to that effect. After playing 14 games in Bakersfield, he was put on the restricted list and never seen again. I wonder if the Reds are considering converting him to a pitcher. After all, he has a decent arm (although not plus-plus) and pitched 4 strikeouts over 2 innings last year.

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    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Re-Sign 1B/3B Mike Costanzo and OF Welinton Ramirez

    This particular writer thought highly of Ramirez. Of course this was back in the spring of 2010.

    http://jaysjournal.com/2010/03/28/we...n-10-10-of-10/
    A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.

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    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Re-Sign 1B/3B Mike Costanzo and OF Welinton Ramirez

    I didn't want to sidetrack the Minor League Transactions thread so I chose to bump this thread to discuss Mike Costanzo.

    Several posters say they preferred to have Costanzo bumped to AAA over Henry Rodriguez to play third base every day while Frazier is in the bigs. I just wanted to ask why? Costanzo has never OPSed over .824 in a minor league season and that number is so high because he OPSed .965 in independent ball when he was 26 in 2010. In 173 PAs in AAA last year, he posted a whopping .630 OPS.

    I get that he may be a nice guy, but why bump this guy to AAA when you have a top prospect at AA who has shown he can play the position defensively and has shown some real offensive potential and results in AA? Furthermore, it's not like the Reds are set at third base.

    I think the Reds really missed out by calling Costanzo up to AAA instead of Henry Rodriguez.

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    Re: Reds Re-Sign 1B/3B Mike Costanzo and OF Welinton Ramirez

    A few things. I appreciate your point. Rodriguez is by far the better prospect; but he's less than a year removed from High-A and by most accounts has not demonstrated the defense or makeup he will need for the big leagues.

    Costanzo, on the other hand, was playing below his level in AA, where he hit 27 home runs five years ago. We think of him as a journeyman, but he was a second-round draft pick (by the Phillies, who pay a lot of attention to scouting) and once considered a bona fide power prospect. He is, in fact, the most likely and ready of all the Reds' minor-leaguers to step up to Cincinnati and provide left-handed power at a position of need. (You could also make an argument for Dorn, but he doesn't play third base.) No, he's not a world-beater or even a difference-maker. But he's definitely a guy the Reds should be challenging and examining right now to determine if he can take over the Juan Francisco role (which would, of course, require a move on the 40-man). I think this move makes perfect sense.

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    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Re-Sign 1B/3B Mike Costanzo and OF Welinton Ramirez

    Quote Originally Posted by mace View Post
    A few things. I appreciate your point. Rodriguez is by far the better prospect; but he's less than a year removed from High-A and by most accounts has not demonstrated the defense or makeup he will need for the big leagues.

    Costanzo, on the other hand, was playing below his level in AA, where he hit 27 home runs five years ago. We think of him as a journeyman, but he was a second-round draft pick (by the Phillies, who pay a lot of attention to scouting) and once considered a bona fide power prospect. He is, in fact, the most likely and ready of all the Reds' minor-leaguers to step up to Cincinnati and provide left-handed power at a position of need. (You could also make an argument for Dorn, but he doesn't play third base.) No, he's not a world-beater or even a difference-maker. But he's definitely a guy the Reds should be challenging and examining right now to determine if he can take over the Juan Francisco role (which would, of course, require a move on the 40-man). I think this move makes perfect sense.
    I actually haven't heard any reports on Henry's defense since he moved to third base. Either way, I don't think it would hurt having him in AAA learning next to one of the best defensive shortstops I have ever seen in Paul Janish. Talk about a great guy to benchmark your defense against.

    As for make-up, I am not really concerned with make-up as long as they are getting results. It's too hard to quantify and players grow up and get over most of these issues as they get older.

    I just don't think a guy should be promoted to AAA because he is "more ready for it" than another guy. If that was the case, we would have a team of AAAA guys in Louisville and our top prospects like Henry would never have the opportunity to hit AAAA pitching. Many of the guys who start for International League teams have had a handful or even more major league starts and are a major step up from Southern League pitching.

    I guess my biggest problem with bumping Costanzo up because you are concerned about 2012 third baseman depth is that if he was called up to the bigs he would be the worst third baseman in the major leagues. Furthermore, he is maybe sixth on third baseman depth chart (Rolen, Cairo, Frazier, Valdez, Harris, Costanzo). There is no way if four of the guys ahead of him were hurt, they wouldn't deal for a fill-in guy. I see no way Costanzo provides value to the Reds in 2012.

    Henry on the other hand could tear the cover off the ball in AAA and make himself valuable to the Reds in 2012 and could be our Opening Day third baseman in 2013. I guess I just see Henry as the possible successor to Rolen at third where Costanzo is a guy who was once highly touted, but has never really produced much at high levels in his 7+ professional seasons.

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    Member muddie's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Re-Sign 1B/3B Mike Costanzo and OF Welinton Ramirez

    A tip of the hat to Mike Costanzo. The guy is leading the Pensacola team in BA, HR, RBI, OBP, and SLG. Don't often see one guy grab all those stats at one time.

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    Re: Reds Re-Sign 1B/3B Mike Costanzo and OF Welinton Ramirez

    Because the move is (as of now) temporarily. Once Cairo comes off the Disabled list, you would think Frazier will head back to Louisville. That means Costanzo (or Rodriguez) would go back down to Pensacola. They don't want to send someone like Rodriguez up to Triple-A for only two weeks and then send him back down.

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    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Re-Sign 1B/3B Mike Costanzo and OF Welinton Ramirez

    Quote Originally Posted by cinreds21 View Post
    Because the move is (as of now) temporarily. Once Cairo comes off the Disabled list, you would think Frazier will head back to Louisville. That means Costanzo (or Rodriguez) would go back down to Pensacola. They don't want to send someone like Rodriguez up to Triple-A for only two weeks and then send him back down.
    Why not give H-Rod a taste of AAA pitching so he will know what the next step is like? This can help motivate him when he is sent back down to AA.

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    Re: Reds Re-Sign 1B/3B Mike Costanzo and OF Welinton Ramirez

    Not many teams work that way.

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    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Re-Sign 1B/3B Mike Costanzo and OF Welinton Ramirez

    Quote Originally Posted by cinreds21 View Post
    Not many teams work that way.
    Cinreds21, I agree with you. I just am questioning why teams do it that way. I want the players with the best skills to get every chance possible to be an above-average regular. If that is the goal of your minor league system (to churn out as many above-average regulars as possible), then why promote a guy to AAA who has little chance of ever making the big club while preventing one of your top prospects from having a chance to grow as a ballplayer. Doesn't make sense to me.

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    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Re-Sign 1B/3B Mike Costanzo and OF Welinton Ramirez

    Confidence is fragile, and you can never undo a promotion to a tougher league. I think the best route is to play it safe. When he's ready for advanced pitching, the organization will act accordingly.

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    Re: Reds Re-Sign 1B/3B Mike Costanzo and OF Welinton Ramirez

    Thought this was an interesting thread to bump. Sometimes it's all in what you need.

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    Re: Reds Re-Sign 1B/3B Mike Costanzo and OF Welinton Ramirez

    Quote Originally Posted by tixe View Post
    Thought this was an interesting thread to bump. Sometimes it's all in what you need.
    Costanzo seems like we are sticking a square peg into a round hole. He sounds like a great dude, I just don't think he can do anything that Henry Rodriguez can't. I think HRod would be more valuable in Cincinnati right now.

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    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Re-Sign 1B/3B Mike Costanzo and OF Welinton Ramirez

    Quote Originally Posted by Edd Roush View Post
    Costanzo seems like we are sticking a square peg into a round hole. He sounds like a great dude, I just don't think he can do anything that Henry Rodriguez can't. I think HRod would be more valuable in Cincinnati right now.
    I doubt it. Players usually aren't very good immediately following thumb surgery.

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Re-Sign 1B/3B Mike Costanzo and OF Welinton Ramirez

    Quote Originally Posted by camisadelgolf View Post
    I doubt it. Players usually aren't very good immediately following thumb surgery.
    No, but my broken thumb led to me being a much better basketball player. For 8 weeks I could only play with my left hand. When I was fully healed, my skillset was much greater.


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