OF Dave Sappelt, or 2B Ron Torreyes?
OF Dave Sappelt, or 2B Ron Torreyes?
I voted for Torreyes but I am happy either way.
I am going with Dave Sappelt.
Offensively, I think that Torreyes has a ceiling to be what Sappelt is right now. A guy who doesn't walk much, but has a solid walk rate, who also makes a lot of contact. I think Sappelt has the edge in power, while Torreyes has an edge in contact ability (though not by a ton). Defensively, both can play up the middle. Sappelt has better range between the two at their respective positions, but Sappelt's arm may bring the two closer in overall defense.
Early returns indicate a walkoff runoff.
A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.
Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.
Sappelt. If Torreyes can put up the ML numbers I look for from Sappelt, then we will have a very nice replacement for BP at 2b.
I like both players quite a bit, but will stay with the more advanced guy who has put up big numbers in AA and AAA. Been voting Sappelt for a while.
"Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini
I've seen no reports from anyone who says Sappelt's defense is anywhere in the same league as Torreyes'. In fact, I've heard multiple scouts rave about Torreyes' glove while the only thing said about Sappelt in CF was that his arm was weak.
I like Sappelt. I think he can be an above average major league player. When right, he reminds me of Bill Madlock.
But Torreyes already has the glove to play a major league second base. (At least he did according to Redsof72 and scouts who saw him play in Spring Training last season and Dayton the year before that.)
Too, Sappelt-- though he had two very good seasons-- did it at an age appropriate level. Torreyes is putting up monster numbers three or four years younger than he should.
My personal list has Sappelt well within the Top Ten. It just has the youth, production, positive scouting reports, and defensive ability of Torreyes higher.
"You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
-- Christy Matthewson
"Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
-- Leo Durocher
As for Torreyes posting his numbers at his age being impressive... it really is. But how much better can they honestly get? There simply isn't much projection there. He isn't going to improve his strikeout rate. His power isn't going to do much.
Well said by Scrap. I, too, like Sappelt. I think he can really hit and chase flies. But I don't know how in the world we can say that he is what we hope Torreyes becomes.
At this point, they have one common stop: Dayton.
Sappelt, Dayton, age 22 (331 PA): 269/322/392/714
Torreyes, Dayton, age 18 (306 PA): 356/398/457/855
In addition, Torreyes, by all accounts, is a better fielder and baserunner, and more fundamentally sound.
On Sappelt's behalf, he didn't really break out until age 23. On Torreyes' behalf, he has another five years before he's 23. And yet, his career minor-league OPS (935) is more than 100 points better than Sappelt's (821).
To say that Torreyes' upside is Sappelt is to sell Torreyes waaaaay short, IMO.
Last edited by mace; 11-18-2011 at 11:07 AM.
How much better can Torreyes get, potentially? A lot better. Because he can get bigger and much stronger.
Keep in mind that Torreyes turned 19 years old on September 2, 2011. That means, even next season, he will play as a 19 year old.
One would think that Torreyes will fill out. He is listed on Baseball Reference as 5'9" and 140. By the time he is 24, say, he is likely to be quite a bit stronger. And hit for more power.
The young man has a remarkable set of stats for his age. Think about it. Age 18 he has already posted an .855 OPS in 306 plate appearances at the Low A-ball level. At age 19 this fellow will likely be in High-A ball and could even be at AA before he is 20.
Sorry to interrupt the electioneering with some of my own.
Last edited by Kc61; 11-18-2011 at 11:07 AM.
Dave Sappelt at Dayton (2009....22 years old):
3 HR, 25 RBI
Ronald Torreyes at Dayton (2011....18 years old):
3 HR, 41 RBI
I'll take Torreyes.
*edit: oops. Didn't read down through thread before posting. Looks like mace already covered this.
Last edited by BuckeyeRedleg; 11-18-2011 at 12:07 PM.
I think it's a bit presumptuous to assume that Torreyes's strikeout rate will not improve. As of right now, he hasn't faced a situation where it's actually been an issue, due to him getting so many hits across all levels. He also flashed more power last year in a more hitter-friendly league, so there's a chance that he could improve there too (and let's not forget that, while it's a long shot, he's young enough that he could still add a few inches).
Personally, I have both of these guys above Corcino and Boxberger. I believe that they've got a much higher potential to succeed than do any of our pitchers, to be honest.
Here is the problem with Torreyes, some guys just don't fill out and that is the fear. With a different frame he is in the top 5 but he will need a couple more seasons similar to his first two before he will garner such respoect.
"When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"