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View Poll Results: Who is Redszone's #11 prospect?

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  • OF Dave Sappelt

    28 45.90%
  • 2B Ron Torreyes

    33 54.10%
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Thread: Prospect #11 Runoff

  1. #16
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Prospect #11 Runoff

    Quote Originally Posted by The DARK View Post
    I think it's a bit presumptuous to assume that Torreyes's strikeout rate will not improve. As of right now, he hasn't faced a situation where it's actually been an issue, due to him getting so many hits across all levels. He also flashed more power last year in a more hitter-friendly league, so there's a chance that he could improve there too (and let's not forget that, while it's a long shot, he's young enough that he could still add a few inches).

    Personally, I have both of these guys above Corcino and Boxberger. I believe that they've got a much higher potential to succeed than do any of our pitchers, to be honest.
    I don't really think it is that presumptuous at all. Over the last three years, five players have a strikeout rate between 6-8%. Torreyes was at 6.2% last year in Dayton. Unless he becomes the best contact hitter in the history of baseball in a time where the pitching is the best it has ever been, there really isn't room to get better at it (in terms of his rates.... he will have to clearly get much better to maintain that rate of contact as he moves up).

    For those who think Torreyes is going to get bigger.... I think you are in for a surprise. He is a fraily framed guy. Sure, he might add a few pounds here or there, but if he tops 160 I would be very, very surprised. He is 5' 7". At 19 or not, there isn't much room for him to put on weight as a pro athlete.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Prospect #11 Runoff

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I don't really think it is that presumptuous at all. Over the last three years, five players have a strikeout rate between 6-8%. Torreyes was at 6.2% last year in Dayton. Unless he becomes the best contact hitter in the history of baseball in a time where the pitching is the best it has ever been, there really isn't room to get better at it (in terms of his rates.... he will have to clearly get much better to maintain that rate of contact as he moves up).

    For those who think Torreyes is going to get bigger.... I think you are in for a surprise. He is a fraily framed guy. Sure, he might add a few pounds here or there, but if he tops 160 I would be very, very surprised. He is 5' 7". At 19 or not, there isn't much room for him to put on weight as a pro athlete.
    If he weighs 140, even a gain of 20-25 pounds of mostly muscle will add much power.

    Guy is 19, he'll certainly mature physically and add strength. If he takes care of himself, obviously.

  4. #18
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Prospect #11 Runoff

    My senior year of high school I was a division I recruit (pitcher) and weighed 130 lbs. I was 5-9 and had a similar build as Torreyes.

    By the end of my sophomore year of college (20) I was 150 lbs. By 23, I was 165. Today, I'm 185 lbs and in pretty decent shape.

    I don't buy that a guy can't pack on some lbs. Especially today. 30 years ago, I'd maybe agree with you, but not today.

    If Torreyes wants to bulk up a bit, he can and will.

  5. #19
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Prospect #11 Runoff

    Having stood next to the guy... I just don't see it. Not everyone has the build for it.

  6. #20
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    Re: Prospect #11 Runoff

    We researched this earlier, doug. Not everyone gets bigger, true-- one or two in a thousand don't.

    Every other male between the ages of 17-21 gets "bigger".

    Now, he may be the one or two in a thousand. If I were a betting man, however, I know which way I'd bet...
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  7. #21
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    Re: Prospect #11 Runoff

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I think Torreyes' defense may be a bit overrated by some of those on this board. Scouts I have talked to like his defense, but they don't love it and certainly don't think its gold glove quality at this point.
    Three errors in more than 250 total chances. That's Gold Glove level.

    BA thinks Sappelt's D is better as well:

    Ben (Miamisburg, OH): Dave Sappelt has quietly and methodically put together an excellent year for the Reds AAA club and with his good contact rates and stellar outfield defense along with the Reds woes with the leadoff spot in their batting order, wouldn't he make more sense to have up in Cincinnati than Yonder Alonso to play in LF?
    J.J. Cooper: I'd agree with you if the Reds were using Alonso as a regular left fielder, but for now it seems like Alonso's more of a bench lefty bat rather than anything else, and in that role Alonso fits better than Sappelt because the Reds are looking for a lefty bat. Sappelt's more blocked right now by Chris Heisey, another righty bat with a similar profile but better defense than Sappelt.
    Ben (Miamisburg, OH): What are your thoughts on pint sized Reds 2B, 18 year old Ronald Torreyes who has put up a .394/.438/.497 line in 165 at bats in the pitcher friendly midwest league? He is small but fast, is a plus defender and I recently saw him hit a ball out of the stadium in Dayton just going foul to miss the home run so he obviously has some pop. Is he a good comparison to Jose Altuve?
    J.J. Cooper: We love the Lil Red Machine around here. He ranked 22nd on our preseason Reds Top 30 despite having a grand total of 24 games in the U.S. coming into this season. As a very short second baseman it's hard not to comp him to Altuve, but there are some differences. Altuve has more power, but Torreyes runs better and is better defensively at second.
    In fact, they rate it thusly, in their scouting report:
    "Torreyes is a wizard with the glove, capable of making the highlight play ranging into the outfield or behind the bag...At the plate, Torreyes has surprising pop for his size and he profiles as a top of the order hitter."
    Another take, this one from the Dayton newspaper and Minorleaguebaseball.com:
    The arrival of the youngster at Fifth Third Field, despite the numbers he had put up throughout the summer, was met without fanfare. And in the six games in which he appeared, he batted just .240, collecting two doubles and a triple. However, the impact Torreyes made on observers in Dayton was enormous, not because of his offense, but because of his play at second base. From the first game he played with the Dragons, Torreyes made one spectacular play after another, turning in a series of web gems that would have earned any big leaguer a place on ESPN's plays of the day. Going to his left and right, Torreyes played the kind of defense that had fans and scouts shaking their heads. With one diving catch after another, often throwing out runners from his knees, Torreyes' week in Dayton generated enough discussion that Baseball America ranked him as the number 22 prospect in the Reds organization entering 2011. That is quite an accomplishment for a player whose original signing generated not a whisper, and his experience level in the U.S. consisted of a total of 22 official games.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  8. #22
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Prospect #11 Runoff

    Here is how I feel about "gold glove" defense.... if scouts aren't unanimous about being at that level, you probably aren't at that level. I have heard from a few scouts that he is good, but not great defensively. You have to love the error rate though. When combined with his good range, it does make him a pretty good defender. All "gold glove" level defense reports I have heard have come second hand from someone who either isn't a scout or someone who has heard it from somewhere else (be it a scout or something they read somewhere).

  9. #23
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    Re: Prospect #11 Runoff

    I would argue, doug, that those reports would be better than you and I, two amateur dudes on computers most of the day.

    While both of us have seen a bunch of baseball, neither of us gets paid to do this for a living nor are either of us employed by a baseball team to judge said defense. Even if the report is second-hand, in other words, it's gotta be better than our own Eyeball tests-- especially if it's multiple reports, right?
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
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  10. #24
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Prospect #11 Runoff

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    I would argue, doug, that those reports would be better than you and I, two amateur dudes on computers most of the day.

    While both of us have seen a bunch of baseball, neither of us gets paid to do this for a living nor are either of us employed by a baseball team to judge said defense. Even if the report is second-hand, in other words, it's gotta be better than our own Eyeball tests-- especially if it's multiple reports, right?
    Well, as I noted, the scouts that I have talked to, haven't had him as "gold glove quality". That to me is better than anything I have read on here, sans the BA reports since they do talk to scouts as well, which I hadn't read at the time of my post. That is essentially what I was saying, that the only people I have talked to who say his defense is at that level, aren't scouts and are telling me something second hand.

  11. #25
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    Re: Prospect #11 Runoff

    Could it be that we may have a tie at 11 and then just move on to Prospect #13?

  12. #26
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    Re: Prospect #11 Runoff

    Quote Originally Posted by crazybob60 View Post
    Could it be that we may have a tie at 11 and then just move on to Prospect #13?
    We still have about 22 hours left. Someone will come along and swing the vote one way or the other. Hopefully. I would expect the loser here to run away with #12 though.... but you never know.

  13. #27
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    Re: Prospect #11 Runoff

    I wonder, though, if there will be a groundswell for Gregorius in light of his BA ranking.

  14. #28
    Will post for food BuckeyeRedleg's Avatar
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    Re: Prospect #11 Runoff

    Quote Originally Posted by mace View Post
    I wonder, though, if there will be a groundswell for Gregorius in light of his BA ranking.
    I was thinking the same thing. Maybe next year we can get this thing started a week or two earlier so that we rule out the possibility of being influenced by BA's rankings.


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