Turn Off Ads?
Page 3 of 23 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 344

Thread: BCS blather

  1. #31
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    15,534

    Re: BCS blather

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat13 View Post
    The computers have the Big 12 as the best conference this year and three of the six BCS computer rankings have OK State as #2 and Alabama #3 (the other three have it reversed). If OK State wins out, they would most likely pass Alabama in all of the computers. A one-loss OK State deserves to play for the title more than Alabama does.
    That sounds logical to me, so given that, how does the system show an SEC bias?

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #32
    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Overlooking GABP
    Posts
    4,442

    Re: BCS blather

    Computers that lack emotion crunch the numbers. Someone is always going to have their feelings hurt (or their own personal bias shot down) and scream bias. I am all for a playoff but this is waaaay better than what we used to have. I watched an undefeated Top 10 Marshall team get shut out of the big bowls when I was in school. Under the current system they might have received an at-large bid to a BCS games. Under the old system they simply thrashed BYU in the Motor City Bowl.
    Last edited by reds1869; 11-22-2011 at 09:30 AM.

  4. #33
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    15,534

    Re: BCS blather

    Quote Originally Posted by reds1869 View Post
    Computers that lack emotion crunch the numbers. Someone is always going to have their feelings hurt (or their own personal bias shot down) and scream bias. I am all for a playoff but this is waaaay better than what we used to have. I watched an undefeated Top 10 Marshall team get shut out of the big bowls when I was in school. Under the current system they might have received an at-large bid to a BCS games. Under the old system they simply thrashed BYU in the Motor City Bowl.
    I was with you 100% until the last line. Under the old system they let BYU win the national championship by beating a .500 team in the Holiday Bowl

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_Holiday_Bowl

    The current system is flawed in that it attempts to do what can't be done and that's to narrow the field to only two teams. There are just too many teams and too many differing schedules to do such a determination. How do you compare an Ok St and LSU? They zero, zilch common opponents.

    If they must narrow it down to two schools then I think the BCS is as good as we're going to get.

  5. #34
    Winning is fun.
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Urbana, OH
    Posts
    783

    Re: BCS blather

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    That sounds logical to me, so given that, how does the system show an SEC bias?
    I never argued that it did, but since you asked, the system (I see you moved from computers to "system") heavily uses human polls. The human polls have 3 SEC teams ahead of Oklahoma State, despite the impartial computers either having only one or two. The highest any computer has Arkansas is fourth (2) and the lowest is seventh. The other three have Arkansas fifth or sixth. Yet Arkansas is third in the BCS Standings due to the human element, and I think we all can agree any human element is going to bring some bias, intended or not.

  6. #35
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    15,534

    Re: BCS blather

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverRat13 View Post
    I never argued that it did, but since you asked, the system (I see you moved from computers to "system") heavily uses human polls. The human polls have 3 SEC teams ahead of Oklahoma State, despite the impartial computers either having only one or two. The highest any computer has Arkansas is fourth (2) and the lowest is seventh. The other three have Arkansas fifth or sixth. Yet Arkansas is third in the BCS Standings due to the human element, and I think we all can agree any human element is going to bring some bias, intended or not.
    My original post (that you responded to) was as a reply to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Stanford, Okie State, Boise State, VA Tech, and Houston? If anything, the system is revealing its natural bias towards the SEC.
    Hence the word "system". I frankly don't see a difference between computers or system but if you see a difference, please illuminate it. The BCS system is well known as a formula fed into a computer and has often been criticized as a computer picking the NC pairing.

    The computers determine the BCS pairing and of course the computers are only as good as what people put into them so sure, there's a human element. So I don't see it as a system wide bias towards the SEC. It is what it is and this year the SEC comes out strong based on the formula chosen to be programmed into the computer

  7. #36
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    12,324

    Re: BCS blather

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    Who is more deserving this time around?

    I certainly don't want a rematch, but it's a tough sell for me to think that any of the other one loss teams would measure up to what Alabama has done thusfar.
    I won't argue that. There's no question the 2 best teams in the country are LSU and Alabama (although, I'm not really buying Arkansas). It's not even close, IMO. I wouldn't have a problem with that being the championship game. I just think it will be interesting to see if people's tunes change this time around. Some may argue that this time is different, but regardless of what other circumstances have changed, the argument of not winning the conference or "having their chance" are exactly the same.

    I can understand the conference argument. In MLB, the NFL, or the NBA the best two teams don't always play for the championship. Sometimes the best two teams are in the same conference or league and that's just too bad. But they have a system that allows all deserving teams to compete for it. They only have two conferences. If college football had only 2 conferences, then it would be a non-argument. But they have so many and only one championship game that it's still very arbitrary. The current system is so stupid.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  8. #37
    Winning is fun.
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Urbana, OH
    Posts
    783

    Re: BCS blather

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I frankly don't see a difference between computers or system but if you see a difference, please illuminate it.
    I differentiate between the independent computer systems (Massie, Sagarin, etc.) and the BCS point system that incorporates the average of the six computers and the human polls. I was talking about the former, it looks like you were talking about the latter. I'm guessing that is the confusion.

  9. #38
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Mason, OH
    Posts
    11,991

    Re: BCS blather

    2/3 of the BCS is human polls and 1/3 is a conglomerate of the computer polls. Yes, they use computers to calculate the final BCS standings, but 2/3 of it is based on imperfect carbon-based units (people).

    A breakdown of the ranking components:

    I. Harris Interactive Poll (1/3rd)
    The first poll will be released October 9, then weekly through December 4. A team's score in the Harris poll will be divided by 2,875, which is the maximum number of points any team can receive if all 115 voting members rank the same team as Number 1. Example: 2,875 / 2,875 = 1.0. If a team receives a total of 115 voting points, an average of 25th place, their BCS quotient of this component would be .04. (1.0 / 25 = 0.04).

    II. Coaches Poll (1/3rd)
    A team's score in the USA Today poll will be divided by 1,475, which is the maximum number of points any team can receive if all 59 voting members rank the same team as Number 1. Example: 1,475 / 1,475 = 1.0. If a team receives a total of 59 voting points, an average of 25th place, their BCS quotient of this component would be .04. (1.0 / 25 = 0.04).

    (Better understanding the polls: In both human polls, voting members fill out their own top 25 rankings ballot. Each team receives 1-25 points in reverse order of the way they are ranked. The 25th place team on each ballot receives 1 point, 24th place gets 2 points, 23rd receives 3 points... first place receives 25 points. This inverse point order is also applied to the computer rankings.

    In the Harris Interactive College Football Poll and USA Today Coaches Poll, a team will be evaluated on the number of voting points it receives in each poll. The number of actual voters, which can vary, is figured into the computation on a weekly basis in stating each team's percentage of a possible perfect score.

    III. Computer rankings (1/3rd)
    The computer rankings percentage is calculated by dropping the highest and lowest ranking for each team and then dividing the remaining total by 100, the maximum possible points. (Example: the 6 rankers have Team A ranked 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, and 4. Take away the 2 and 4 which leaves an average of 3rd place. The BCS quotient of this component would be 0.92. (23 / 25 = 0.92).

    Peter Wolfe
    Wes Colley
    Sagarin
    Seattle Times
    Richard Billingsley
    Kenneth Massey


    Pay attention to the open sky

  10. #39
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,568

    Re: BCS blather

    WAR EAGLE is all I have to say on the subject.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  11. #40
    Hot Stove Season HotCorner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    2,179

    Re: BCS blather

    Let's say both LSU and Alabama lose this weekend. Arkansas would then play Georgia in the SEC Championship. Let's say Georgia wins that game. Let's also say OkSt beats Oklahoma and VT wins out in the ACC.

    What two teams get to the National Championship? I've got imagine LSU and OkSt yet LSU wouldn't have even played in their own conference championship game.

  12. #41
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    12,324

    Re: BCS blather

    Yeah, a team in a conference with a championship game getting to the NATIONAL championship game without even qualifying for the conference one would be really strange, but I'm pretty sure it's going to happen. Alabama is not going to lose to Auburn and they play no more games. I think they are a lock more than anyone else at this point.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  13. #42
    Yay!
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Middletown, Ohio
    Posts
    7,418

    Re: BCS blather

    Quote Originally Posted by HotCorner View Post
    Let's say both LSU and Alabama lose this weekend. Arkansas would then play Georgia in the SEC Championship. Let's say Georgia wins that game. Let's also say OkSt beats Oklahoma and VT wins out in the ACC.

    What two teams get to the National Championship? I've got imagine LSU and OkSt yet LSU wouldn't have even played in their own conference championship game.
    I'd have a hard time with one loss VT getting in over one loss LSU, especially given LSU's non-conference schedule.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

  14. #43
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    12,622

    Re: BCS blather

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    The computers determine the BCS pairing and of course the computers are only as good as what people put into them so sure, there's a human element. So I don't see it as a system wide bias towards the SEC. It is what it is and this year the SEC comes out strong based on the formula chosen to be programmed into the computer
    I'm not going to get into a semantics argument with you.

    The "System" is the BCS System -- Human Voters + Computers.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  15. #44
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    15,534

    Re: BCS blather

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I'm not going to get into a semantics argument with you.

    The "System" is the BCS System -- Human Voters + Computers.
    I'm not interested in a semantics argument with either.

    So how is "the system" biased towards the SEC?

  16. #45
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Mason, OH
    Posts
    11,991

    Re: BCS blather

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I'm not interested in a semantics argument with either.

    So how is "the system" biased towards the SEC?
    If I read the arguments correctly, its because human polls consistently rank SEC teams higher than the computer polls. And human polls make up 2/3 of the BCS.

    Pay attention to the open sky


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25