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Thread: Reds Starting Pitching -- Not So Simple

  1. #1
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    Reds Starting Pitching -- Not So Simple

    I don't think Reds starting pitching issue is so easy to deal with.

    First, the team already has lots of quantity. So the need is for a front line guy. Reds already have talented maybes, don't need to acquire more of them. So Reds need a major guy who will cost good players, much money, or both.

    Second, we saw in the Josh Hamilton deal that trading a talented every day player for pitching can be a big gamble. Pitching is usually fragile, often more so than hitting and fielding. Trading an Alonso for pitching could be risky.

    Third is GABP. Not every good pitcher will be successful in this type of stadium.

    Fourth are Bailey, Volquez, Wood and Chapman. Here are four very talented guys who I still consider maybes. But any one of them could emerge as equal to or better than a pitcher the Reds acquire. The team must have a good sense of the likely future of all these guys before possibly trading them away.

    Fifth is Arroyo. His contract and his down 2011 must give the Reds concerns about adding more long term deals to their rotation. I hope he rebounds, but worst case is adding another big pitching contract that doesn't work out.

    Sixth is other needs. I think the Reds must also beef up the pen and pin down LF this off season. They can't use all their available assets in a deal for a starter.

    I think the Reds need to get a front line starter this off season. But any move will likely come with real risks.

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    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Starting Pitching -- Not So Simple

    I am ok with either Arroyo or Volquez as the 5th starter with the others being acquisition, Cueto, Leake & Bailey. Assuming the guy we acquire is good that gives us 3 better than average starters, plus Bailey (still could get it all together) and then fingers crossed in the 5th spot.
    The key is getting an established guy who we can pencil in for 200 innings and a plus ERA. The names we have tossed about (Shields, Wandy, Danks, etc) seem to fit that bill. The guy we get cannot be another guy with potential, I really think it has to be a vet.

    I still think the Reds best plan is to center a deal around one of the 3 centerfielders. CF, Volquez & a prospect would seem attractive to a rebuilding team looking to shed some payroll.

    One plan I have not really seen talked about is finding a veteran left fielder with question marks & trying to trade Arroyo for him. The advantage of this is that we could still trade Alonso for a strong starter (who makes some coin) because we have shed Arroyo's salary & filled LF at the same time. Then we could go with Volquez/Wood as the #5 guy. Heck if its Shields we would still have some cash to trade one of the CF guys for a closer. We'd have something like this:

    CF 2 of Stubbs, Heisey & Sappelt
    2B Phillips
    1B Votto
    RF Bruce
    LF vet obtained in Arroyo deal
    3B Rolen, Francisco, Frazier
    C Mes/Hanigan
    SS Cozart

    SP strong starter
    SP Cueto
    SP Leake
    SP Bailey
    SP Volquez/Wood

    RP closer obtained for CF
    RP Chapman
    RP Bray
    RP Lecure
    RP Masset
    RP Boxberger
    RP Arrendondo
    .

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    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Starting Pitching -- Not So Simple

    I really wish the Reds could trade for Shields and Wandy.

    Shields
    Cueto
    Wandy Rodriguez
    Leake
    Arroyo

    Then maybe either move Bailey to the pen or make him part of the trade to acquire one of those two guys.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  5. #4
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Starting Pitching -- Not So Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I really wish the Reds could trade for Shields and Wandy.

    Shields
    Cueto
    Wandy Rodriguez
    Leake
    Arroyo

    Then maybe either move Bailey to the pen or make him part of the trade to acquire one of those two guys.
    If the team had more payroll then I'd love to see both of those guys acquired as well. One strong starter will still put us behind the Cards & the Brewers in terms of rotation quality. I also have no problem with having Arroyo be the #6 starter. 1) he was awful last year & 2) depth is good. we will need 6 or more starters. just about every team does every year.

    however, i don't think the team has the money. Wandy costs $10M and Shields $6M. then we will have to get a left fielder and a bullpen arm.
    .

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    Re: Reds Starting Pitching -- Not So Simple

    The Reds already have a 'bullpen arm'. His name is Aroldis Chapman. I'd rather see him stretched out as a starter and then you don't have to trade for two starters, IMO, but, if you go with the scenario above, AC could easily fill the bill.

    I also have a feeling that Woods will get back to what he was: a #1 pitching prospect that performed well in about a 1/3 of a MLB season in '10. JMO

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Starting Pitching -- Not So Simple

    I just hope we don't trade away serious assets for Jurrjens or Gio Gonzalez. Both are fine pitchers, but they're nothing like top of rotation arms.

    I really would like to see Travis Wood get another opportunity. I think he's actually comparable to Jurrjens.

    If we're going to bring in a pitcher and can't get Shields or Pineda, I'd love to see Walt pursue Hiroki Kuroda. He's quite underrated.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 12-03-2011 at 04:31 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Reds Starting Pitching -- Not So Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I just hope we don't trade away serious assets for Jurrjens or Gio Gonzalez. Both are fine pitchers, but they're nothing like top of rotation arms.

    I really would like to see Travis Wood get another opportunity. I think he's actually comparable to Jurrjens.

    If we're going to bring in a pitcher and can't get Shields or Pineda, I'd love to see Walt pursue Hiroki Kuroda. He's quite underrated.
    Travis Wood would be better off in a roomy stadium. Fly ball pitcher.

    Did show talent as a rookie, just maybe not a good GABP fit.

    Volquez should be a good Cincy pitcher. Ground balls and Ks. Terrible control, though, lately.

    Homer is just very inconsistent. Chapman has serious bouts of wildness.

    Nobody's perfect, as they say.

  9. #8
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Starting Pitching -- Not So Simple

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Travis Wood would be better off in a roomy stadium. Fly ball pitcher.

    Did show talent as a rookie, just maybe not a good GABP fit.

    Volquez should be a good Cincy pitcher. Ground balls and Ks. Terrible control, though, lately.

    Homer is just very inconsistent. Chapman has serious bouts of wildness.

    Nobody's perfect, as they say.
    And Bailey is a major injury risk. Chapman had to be shut down in the AFL as well as having that wierd loss of velocity earlier in the season. Volquez is still coming back from TJ. A whole lot of uncertainty. The Reds need less of that. I'd like a number 1 or 2 myself, but a solid number 3 who has proven to be reliable would still be a good get depending on the cost.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  10. #9
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Starting Pitching -- Not So Simple

    I wish Chapman would get healthy. I'd trade him in a heartbeat. I think he is going to be injury prone and I'd like to get some value for him while we still can.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread


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