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Thread: Dream Trades

  1. #16
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Dream Trades

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post
    I have thought about this type of deal. As part of it Belt is flipped to the Rays (along with Grandal) for Shields.

    1) I think the Reds should get Romo not Affelt.
    2) Its Joey Votto!!! The Reds get more than just Bumgarner, Belt & Romo.
    I am not sure how much more. To me it seems that at least one of their top 5 prospects.
    3) These two deals net the team two #2 type starters & a closer. The team has the $10M playflex they started with plus $4M or so with replacing Votto's salary with Shields. So thats $14M to go get a left fielder via free agency or trade.
    Its two years of Joey Votto. Bumgarner and Belt (with the exception of Posey) are the two best young players in the SF system. Affeldt would be to even the money a bit for SF.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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  3. #17
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Dream Trades

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Like clockwork I can always count on you to respond to me. What about corkedbat's dream trade? He's doing the same thing. He traded multiple 40-man guys for 1 guy.

    Geez. Feel like you're stalking me at times.
    I happened to just see yours since it was multiple ideas in a very long thread. Promise, I am not stalking you.

    But yeah, corked.... same for you. Trades with multiple 40 man guys for 1 doesn't often work.

  4. #18
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Dream Trades

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Yes. I changed it.

    Sometimes you get a name in your head and get momentarily confused.
    The Ms already have their future first baseman and Pineda > Bailey/Fisher.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  5. #19
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Dream Trades

    I haven't thought all of this completely through, but wanted to play out the string based on some ideas that I thought fit our stated priorities and seemed fair/realistic for all involved. Enjoy!

    Reds/Marlins
    Give: Drew Stubbs, Juan Fransisco, Edinson Volquez
    Get: Hanley Ramirez

    Why it works for the Marlins: CF, 3B, and SP are three areas the Marlins are targetting and they land two Dominicans.
    Why it works for the Reds: Reds have CF depth to spare and Hanley could play OF or 3B potentially, while serving as the RH bat we've been desperate for. Admittedly, I'm not as high on Juan Fransisco as others are. I'd like to trade him before he gets exposed as a LH Marcus Thames.

    Reds/Rays
    Give: Joey Votto
    Get: James Shields, BJ Upton

    Why it works for the Rays: Votto gives them a bat that can put them over the top and the money comes out close enough. Moving Upton clears the way for Jennings to man CF full-time. Upton's trade value is considerably less than it was with FA compensation changes. Phipps gives them some more depth.
    Why it works for the Reds: By most accounts, Alonso isn't going to get it done for an ace. If you believe in his bat, Alonso has more value to the Reds than potential trade partners, who want a discount becaus it's not proven yet. Shields would likely thrive outside of the AL East, giving the Reds a legit #1. Upton comes partially for salary reasons, but has been unfairly viewed as a disappointment despite being a 4 win player 4 of the last 5 years.

    Reds/Rockies
    Give: Bronson Arroyo, Chris Heisey, Henry Rodriguez
    Get: Huston Street, Seth Smith

    Why it works for the Rockies: They have about as much payroll flexibility as the Reds do (e.g. very little) and really need an innings eater. Save for their handedness, Heisey and Smith are similar players, but Heisey is cheaper and makes the money work.

    Why it works for the Reds: You want a proven closer, there you go. I'd rather not pay a reliever that much money, but assuming he's healthy, Street is about as good as they come. He's not a perfect fit given his FB tendencies, but you can't have it all. Meanwhile, Smith gives the Reds a RH-crushing LF platoon option and power bat off the bench in the Laynce Nix mold -- a solid 4th OF with Sappelt and Upton coming from the right side and both capable of playing a solid CF.

    Roster
    LF Sappelt
    2B Phillips
    1B Alonso
    SS Ramirez
    RF Bruce
    3B Rolen
    CF Upton
    CA Mesoraco

    IF Cairo
    IF/OF Frazier
    SS Cozart
    OF Smith
    CA Hanigan

    SP Shields
    SP Cueto
    SP Leake
    SP Bailey
    SP Wood

    CL Street
    SU Masset
    SU Bray
    MR Arrendondo
    MR Boxberger
    LR Ondrusek
    LR LeCure

    My biggest complaint here is that it leaves the rotation shallow, though LeCure really looked good last year and is nice insurance. It also hurts our SS defense, but Ramirez isn't as bad as he looks at times and will be helped by having BP and Rolen on his flanks. It does make our OF defense much better.

    I think that team wins the NL Central and has a legit shot in the playoffs.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  6. #20
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    Re: Dream Trades

    RMR,

    Some nice thoughts here, and I agree that that team is very capable of winning the Central. However, I don't think the Marlins are getting enough star power for Ramirez. Votto could probably get him, or some combo of the Cuban guys (primarily Chapman and Grandal, I'd think).
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  7. #21
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Dream Trades

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    RMR,

    Some nice thoughts here, and I agree that that team is very capable of winning the Central. However, I don't think the Marlins are getting enough star power for Ramirez. Votto could probably get him, or some combo of the Cuban guys (primarily Chapman and Grandal, I'd think).
    I left Chapman off my roster entirely.... doh! I guess you slot him in at #5 or in relief, bumping Ondrusek (who was not as effective as people seem to think he was).
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 12-05-2011 at 07:28 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  8. #22
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Dream Trades

    Alot of dealing off one of the better players in the league. Why is trading Joey Votto fall under a dream scenario for many of you? Do you guys really want to trade him off?
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  9. #23
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Dream Trades

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I left Chapman off my roster entirely.... doh! I guess you slot him in at #5 or in relief, bumping Ondrusek (who was not as effective as people seem to think he was).
    Why do you believe Ondrusek wasn't that effective?
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  10. #24
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Dream Trades

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Why do you believe Ondrusek wasn't that effective?
    Not that he was horrible, but his ERA was lucky -- simple ERA vs. FIP (or xFIP). Didn't really miss a ton of bats. Walked a fair number. Had some nice BABIP luck. As relievers go, he was basically replacement level.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  11. #25
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Dream Trades

    If the Reds weren't small market, think of what they could do in the free agent and international market:

    1. Pursue Hiroki Kuroda, and hopefully sign him for 2 years in the starting rotation.
    2. Pursue Cespedes, and plant him in LF.

    They already have a formidable offense.
    They have Cueto, Leake, and Arroyo.

    Use Alonso, Bailey, Wood, Volquez, Grandal and others to trade for another great arm like Shields or Pineda.

    Shields
    Kuroda
    Cueto
    Leake
    Arroyo

    Not bad.

    2B Phillips
    SS Cozart
    1B Votto
    LF Cespedes
    RF Bruce
    3B Francisco/Rolen
    CF Stubbs, Heisey or Sappelt
    C Hanigan/Mez

    Pretty good lineup and you don't have to completely gut your farm system. They just have to up payroll to around $100M, which will never happen.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  12. #26
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    Re: Dream Trades

    Dream Trade 1: Aroldis Chapman, Yasmani Grandal and Bronson Arroyo for Hanley Ramirez

    HanRam reportedly wants out of Miami after they signed Reyes. This gives them two up-and-coming Cuban-born stars, and help for the rotation. It also gives the Reds the payflex to afford HanRam.

    Dream Trade 2: Yonder Alonso and Chris Heisey for Michael Pineda and Brandon League

    Mariners want a 1B who can sock and an OF with upside. Reds could use a young frontline starter and a guy who can finish games. Relatively payroll neutral for both teams.

    Dream Trade 3: Chris Heisey for Matt Capps

    Nationals are hellbent on getting a CF and willing to trade Capps to do it. Reds deal a spare part for a young, inexpensive proven closer with local ties.

    Dream Trade 4: Homer Bailey, Billy Hamilton, Nick Masset, Paul Janish and Yorman Rodriguez for Cole Hamels

    Phillies reportedly now in on Gio Gonzalez, and don't believe they'll be able to re-sign Hamels after this year. According to ESPN they are looking for this type of package. Reds get their playoff-tested #1 starter and are not burdened with payroll beyond 2012.

    Dream Trade 5: Sign Carlos Beltran to a 2-year deal to play LF

    OK so it's not a trade, but it is the most obvious move the Reds could make this offseason, especially after making any one or more of the above trades.
    Last edited by Benihana; 12-07-2011 at 09:47 AM.
    Go BLUE!!!

  13. #27
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Dream Trades

    Arroyo to the Phillies for Cole Hamels.
    Stubbs to the Giants for Matt Cain.
    Volquez to the Pirates for Andrew McCutcheon.

    Dream trades, right?
    "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

  14. #28
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Dream Trades

    If Lou P can get traded to the Devil Rays for Randy Winn, I want to trade Dusty Baker to that farm in Iowa for a few guys playing on the field of dreams...
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  15. #29
    OlafTheBlack Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Dream Trades

    How about Votto to the Rays for Price? One-for-one
    Sabermetrics is this: A batter's goal is to extend the inning. Extend enough innings and you're going to score runs. Extend more innings than your opponent and you're going to score more runs than him.

    Forget the rain. It's never an official game until the Reds piss away a run between third base and home plate. - Bluegrass Redleg

  16. #30
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    Re: Dream Trades

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    How about Votto to the Rays for Price? One-for-one
    That trade was made in 07 if you remember.You don't trade Votto unless you are getting an impact bat in return,and then more.
    "Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser."


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