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Thread: Ryan Braun fails drug test

  1. #121
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Braun fails drug test

    Looks like the Reds will get the Brewers 3 times without Braun, and the Cardinals will benefit 6 times, if the suspension holds.
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  3. #122
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Braun fails drug test

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    For those that continue to say "we don't know all the facts" and we should wait until we pass judgment. My question is, why? Is it because he's a great player? Is it because it's unexpected?
    Why should one wait for all of the facts before forming a conclusion? here's a few reasons that I find compelling:

    1) Doing so generally leads to better conclusions.
    2) Doing so is an essential component of an open mind
    3) The golden rule (i.e we'd all hope others would wait for all of the facts before making judgements about us if we found ourselves in a situation at work or in our personal lives regarding our character or employment status)
    4) Fairness actually dictates it.
    5) Sometimes intuition runs counter to results of an exhaustive investigation.

    It really doesn't matter if the player is Braun, Bloomquist or (Albert) Belle.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  4. #123
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Braun fails drug test

    I only wonder if the record high levels are humanly possible. I'll hold out in case there is some conspiracy to taint Braun. Otherwise, he's likely in trouble.
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  5. #124
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Braun fails drug test

    If 'Roids/HGH also force you to have an awful haircut, this is an open-and-shut case.

    All seriousness, the people who say "We don't know the facts yet..."

    Yes we do! Braun has tested positive for a banned substance. There is no way MLB would release this info (which has been known behind closed doors for over 2 months) unless it was absolutely factual.

    Every time an athlete gets busted for roids/HGH, they go to the same handbook to see what to do. They almost-always go with the "I took an over-the-counter supplement and didn't realize there was a banned substance in there." It's always complete BS and everyone knows it, but that's what athletes have been taught to say in those situations.

    The other move we sometimes see is "The test must have been flawed. I know everything that goes in my body. No way I took a banned substance. I'm Roger Freakin' Clemens, dammit."

    Still surprised Braun got busted before Pujols and Bautista though. Didn't see that one coming.

  6. #125
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Braun fails drug test

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    There is no way MLB would release this info (which has been known behind closed doors for over 2 months) unless it was absolutely factual.
    Just to be accurate, major league baseball didn't release this information. Apparently, the Brewers weren't even aware of test results.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  7. #126
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Braun fails drug test

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Just to be accurate, major league baseball didn't release this information. Apparently, the Brewers weren't even aware of test results.
    Exactly. And that is apparently why Braun's camp is also not making an official comment on the matter, right? Or at least they haven't told their side of the story in terms of facts.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  8. #127
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Braun fails drug test

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Why should one wait for all of the facts before forming a conclusion? here's a few reasons that I find compelling:

    1) Doing so generally leads to better conclusions.
    2) Doing so is an essential component of an open mind
    3) The golden rule (i.e we'd all hope others would wait for all of the facts before making judgements about us if we found ourselves in a situation at work or in our personal lives regarding our character or employment status)
    4) Fairness actually dictates it.
    5) Sometimes intuition runs counter to results of an exhaustive investigation.

    It really doesn't matter if the player is Braun, Bloomquist or (Albert) Belle.
    Couldn't agree more. I'm not sure why people are having such a hard time understanding this. To wait for facts is not to proclaim innocence. It is to suspend judgment until you have... facts.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  9. #128
    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Braun fails drug test

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Couldn't agree more. I'm not sure why people are having such a hard time understanding this. To wait for facts is not to proclaim innocence. It is to suspend judgment until you have... facts.
    I understand what you're saying, but at this point we have one very compelling fact: Braun failed a drug test. It's not like people are going on nothing here.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

  10. #129
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    Re: Ryan Braun fails drug test

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfboy View Post
    I understand what you're saying, but at this point we have one very compelling fact: Braun failed a drug test. It's not like people are going on nothing here.
    I never claimed they were going on nothing, just that they don't have everything. I'm not sure what the urgency is to convict here.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  11. #130
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Braun fails drug test

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    For the record, MLB has issued no statement on this at all. In fact, they haven't even informed the Brewers yet of any failed drug test.

    Braun failed two drug tests on the same sample, that is known, but only because Braun has admitted as such. He has also said that he gave a second sample that was not positive.

    There is still a lot we don't know, and MLB has not commented on any of this yet, so it's hard to draw any conclusions just yet.
    Doesn't matter if he didn't test positive on the 2nd sample. The 1st sample is what they go by. He could very well have been taking PEDs that caused him to test positive and then cycled off after the season was over which would lower his level and give him a negative test several weeks later.
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  12. #131
    On the brink wolfboy's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Braun fails drug test

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I never claimed they were going on nothing, just that they don't have everything. I'm not sure what the urgency is to convict here.
    I'm just going on what you said above, which is "It is to suspend judgment until you have... facts." I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of facts to draw conclusions at this point, starting with the failed test.

    This article points out how unlikely a successful appeal will be for Braun and talks about many of the facts that are out there:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/12/sp...ll-battle.html

    A few noteworthy tidbits:

    Baseball has never lost an arbitration case of this kind, and doping experts said the nature of the tests Braun was said to have failed could make it difficult for him to clear himself.
    While it isn't impossible for Braun to win this appeal, his chances are slim.

    The initial urine test used by the league measures the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone. For most individuals, that ratio rests around one to one. In baseball, if the ratio is found to be at four to one or greater, it raises a flag necessitating a second test, one that can determine whether the testosterone molecules are synthetic as opposed to the result of a naturally occurring condition. Braunís sample drew positive results in both tests.
    The fact that Braun drew positive results twice indicates that the likelihood of a false positive is very slim.

    The defense team for Braun, who had an independent test done, will probably raise questions about the reliability of the testing procedure. This may include noting that while Braunís initial test done by baseball showed he had abnormally high testosterone levels, a test done soon after by an independent laboratory showed normal levels.

    But experts say it can be problematic if subsequent tests showed testosterone levels to be back to normal. Though some individuals have naturally high ratios, they tend to remain stable. A single anomalous spike would thus raise suspicion.
    And, it appears that the evidence Braun intends to submit in his defense could raise more questions than it would answer.

    I completely agree with you when you say that Braun should get the opportunity to release all of the facts here. However, I think it's unfair to say that people are drawing conclusions as to his innocence or guilt without any foundation. There are a lot of facts out there already, all of which weigh heavily against Braun. Knowing what I know, I feel comfortable saying Braun is probably guilty here. However, I am more than willing to eat crow if Braun shows otherwise. In fact, I hope I have to eat crow here. This is bad for baseball no matter how you spin it.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

  13. #132
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Braun fails drug test

    Once again, the Braun camp does not dispute it was a banned substance. That's the ONLY thing that matters as far as punishment. He will wind up sitting for 50 games.

    However, the Braun camp is trying to say it wasn't a PED, but they're also trying to keep Major League Baseball from releasing what drug it was (per terms of the NEW agreement). They're trying to argue (though fairly in my opinion) that this situation should be applied to the old labor agreement where Major League Baseball did not disclose what substance was tested positive. Why do you think they're doing that? Perhaps they don't want the world to know what it really was? Hmm?
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  14. #133
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Braun fails drug test

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfboy View Post
    I completely agree with you when you say that Braun should get the opportunity to release all of the facts here. However, I think it's unfair to say that people are drawing conclusions as to his innocence or guilt without any foundation.
    No one has asserted there was no foundation to wonder. But conclusions at this point are being drawn based upon assertions in leaks that seem to be in dispute. At this point we can't even answer what, why, or how or really anything about the tests with 100% certaintly other than the results appear to have been very unique.

    MLB's official statement would be very helpful whenever they release it.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  15. #134
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    Re: Ryan Braun fails drug test

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Why should one wait for all of the facts before forming a conclusion? here's a few reasons that I find compelling:

    1) Doing so generally leads to better conclusions.
    2) Doing so is an essential component of an open mind
    3) The golden rule (i.e we'd all hope others would wait for all of the facts before making judgements about us if we found ourselves in a situation at work or in our personal lives regarding our character or employment status)
    4) Fairness actually dictates it.
    5) Sometimes intuition runs counter to results of an exhaustive investigation.

    It really doesn't matter if the player is Braun, Bloomquist or (Albert) Belle.
    Experts have already said a false positive is nearly impossible. He will be suspended for 50 games.

  16. #135
    Maple SERP savafan's Avatar
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    Re: Ryan Braun fails drug test

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    Experts have already said a false positive is nearly impossible. He will be suspended for 50 games.
    I think I read that there is a 4% failure rate for this particular method of testing.
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