Reds acquire Mat Latos for Yonder Alonso +

[thatcoolguy_22]

So how long before we need to start considering trading Latos because he will be long gone in 2017? Should we start thinking about Bruce's replacement in 2018? Cueto and Leake in 2016?

I'm tired of next year. I am 24 and will be 25 in April. I have lived in Cincinnati my whole life, have probably been to 400 games in my life, and I have seen the Reds win the division one time. I'm sick of "top prospects," I'm sick of "windows," and I'm sick of reasons not to compete. A trade for a pitcher who walks and talks like an ace in a now wide open division is something that I refuse to wring my hands over. Further, I will never ever understand this idea that the Reds need to suddenly rebuild and hoard prospects while trading away an MVP because Votto is from Toronto and apparently that means he will never sign long term with the Reds.

There are always a million reasons not to make trades. I'm glad the Reds found a reason to make a big one and improve their MLB club for 2012.

Plus Plus is hard in the paint. I agree with everything. I'm 28 and 2010 was by far the best year I have ever experienced of Reds baseball. This hard push to upgrade the team could be what tips Votto into resigning with the Reds. Who knows?

Walt Jocketty didn't open a window into 2012, He drove a truck through the wall.

[corkedbat]

Like the trade. Congrats to the Reds and Walt for getting it done. I still think Cueto has the higher upside but I've seen him more. I hope the Reds hang on to Leake. The rotation is shaping up and would be very good if Chapman can become what we all hoped when he was signed. I think folks are mistaken if the believe Yonder Alonso was going to become anything near what the Reds have at first base right now.

What's left to do?

Find a left fielder, a shortstop with power, and a closer. If I can only have one, I'm going to get the shortstop. Hopefully Cozart can be the guy many of you project, but I see more Paul Janish than Barry Larkin. Sappelt is no answer, but I do like Heisey to some extent. I think Massett can be a closer if given the opportunity, but he's about the only guy than the Reds have that even looks like a closer if Chapman is going to start. LeCure is a soft tosser as is Arroyo.

Wonder how close Chapman would get the Reds to Hanley Ramirez?

My wish list:

1. Trade Chapman plus for Ramirez.

2. Sign Ryan Madson for 2 years.

3. Sign Carlos Beltran for 2 years.

The Reds likely can't afford all three, but I believe all are steps that should be considered and one of them would bring the Reds close to winning the Central in 2012 and 2013.

Actually, if I were to have the money to afford Ramirez, i'd just go hard after Beltran instead (and I'd target LoMo and Dominguez from the Fish before HamRam if I had my druthers). i'm not sure that Ramiriez is actually a better defensive SS than Cozart at this point and he's definitely not a better clubhouse presence.

Hey, if all things were equal, fine. i'd love to have both Ramiriez and Beltran, but if i could just have one, I'd take Beltran and go with Cozart at SS. I'm not over-valuing Cozart at SS. I don't see him as a top offensive SS by any means (although I don't discount him developing into a decent 2-hole hitter at some point in his carreer), but if there is one spot i'm willing to go a little light offensively it would be SS.

I'm fine with Zach hitting in the eight hole. I don't expect a .300 avg or .800 ops from him there, but I can see him hitting .250 with a .730-.750 ops, solid defense, some pop and speed on the base path. Not what Hanley would put up, but I'm more than OK with it in the eighth spot in the lineup for league-minimum, with Beltran in LF and peace in the clubhouse.

[757690]

After thinking about this trade all day, I'm very excited to see Mat Latos pitching for the Reds, but I still hate the deal.

The Reds simply have too many needs both short term (they still need a LF, middle relief help and a closer) and long term (a replacement for Rolen at 3B, a replacement for Votto at 1B, a better CF than Stubbs) to be trading all of their top prospects for 1 guy.

They've also consolidated a lot of risk into Latos (one shoulder twinge and you're getting nothing out of this deal and basically wasted 4 players) and Devin Mesoraco (if he reverts back to his garbage form, they've got nothing in the system to replace him).

If the Reds had $15-$20 million more to spend, I'd love the deal. They could use their cash to go sign Beltran to play LF and ink up a closer. But they don't have that kind of money -- and if you aren't going to spend $100m every season, you need to be a lot smarter about dealing away young cheap talent.

Above average LF'ers are easy to find. Closers even easier. Middle relievers practically grow on trees.

As for a few years from now, that's a few years from now, and so many things can change it's absurd to save trading chips this year for what the team might need in a few years, especially when those chips can bring a guy who can lead the team this year to the playoffs.

The Reds have around $12M to spend this season, if their payroll is $85M.

They also still have:

#4Billy Hamilton
#6 RHP Dan Corcino
#7 RHP Robert Stephenson
#9 1B Neftali Soto
#10 OF Yorman Rodriguez
#11 2B Ron Torreyes
#12 OF Dave Sappelt
#13 UT Todd Frazier
#14 SS Didi Gregorius
#15 2B Henry Rodriguez
#16 LHP Tony Cingrani
#17 OF Juan Duran
#18 RHP Kyle Lotzkar
#19 3B Gabriel Rosa

to trade if they need to fill any more holes.

[fearofpopvol1]

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/...incinnati-reds

Keith Law apparently likes the trade for the Reds. Is hell freezing over? It's a pretty good read actually. He says the deal largely hinges on Grandal and how successful he is as to which team wins the trade. He also said he likes Rizzo better than Alonso and would trade Alonso.

I did laugh at this line...

Unfortunately for the Padres, Alonso is limited to first base (silly experiments in left field notwithstanding -- I'm all for pushing the envelope, but not tilting at windmills)

[oneupper]

Can Yonder start eating again now?

[membengal]

I refuse to be mad that Walt finally took a bold stroke. The market for a SP who projects to TOR was steep, and the alternative was to sit out the market and not get the TOR this team needs. And that was not an option I wanted to see the Reds take, yet again.

So, good on Walt.

Franklly, the part of this trade that may look "bad" from Cincy's standpoint is Volquez, who could easily figure it out and turn into a monster SP at some point. Having said that, I don't fault the Reds for trading him. His time had run here.

This rotation looks a lot better with Latos at the top of it. Makes me excited for 2012 for the first time.

[WrongVerb]

Above average LF'ers are easy to find. Closers even easier. Middle relievers practically grow on trees.

As for a few years from now, that's a few years from now, and so many things can change it's absurd to save trading chips this year for what the team might need in a few years, especially when those chips can bring a guy who can lead the team this year to the playoffs.

The Reds have around $12M to spend this season, if their payroll is $85M.

They also still have:

#4Billy Hamilton
#6 RHP Dan Corcino
#7 RHP Robert Stephenson
#9 1B Neftali Soto
#10 OF Yorman Rodriguez
#11 2B Ron Torreyes
#12 OF Dave Sappelt
#13 UT Todd Frazier
#14 SS Didi Gregorius
#15 2B Henry Rodriguez
#16 LHP Tony Cingrani
#17 OF Juan Duran
#18 RHP Kyle Lotzkar
#19 3B Gabriel Rosa

to trade if they need to fill any more holes.

The ones in italics can't be traded yet. The ones in bold are the ones, while not untouchable, that I consider to be the cornerstone of any deal. Yeah, I don't think there are any untouchables on that list.

[redsmetz]

Can Yonder start eating again now?

I wondered about that too.

[westofyou]

Latos is the best Reds starter since _______?

Anyone?

Rijo, but let's wait until he throws a pitch before we anoint anything

[kaldaniels]

Rijo, but let's wait until he throws a pitch before we anoint anything

Do check out my amended question a few posts down from the one you answered. I chose my words better.

[traderumor]

Probably the most puzzling item of this trade analysis so far has been the handwringing over Boxberger and characterizing Latos as not an ace. Maybe its Latos is a Western Division guy, so not much exposure?

He certainly was at the front of the SD rotation. Maybe its just lack of familiarity with what a real stud pitcher is from deprivation. Look at Bailey, a TOR wannabe for many, and watch Latos pitch and its night and day. And he's younger than Bailey.

[RedLegsToday]

Latos is the best Reds starter since _______?

Anyone?

Johnny Cueto?

Seriously, he's a good pitcher, and you can see from his peripheral stats (k rate close to 9, doesn't walk too many or give up too many hits) that with a small step forward in any of those he is going to be a stud. However, he's never come close to the season Cueto just put up.

[traderumor]

Latos is the best Reds starter since _______?

Anyone?

Johnny Cueto?

Seriously, he's a good pitcher, and you can see from his peripheral stats (k rate close to 9, doesn't walk too many or give up too many hits) that with a small step forward in any of those he is going to be a stud. However, he's never come close to the season Cueto just put up.

I hope Cueto established a new performance level, whereas Latos has already established a performance level. Further, Latos 2010 was Cy Young level until he ran out of gas in September. I'm very satisfied to know now that Cueto is now better cast for what he is and is not expected to be "ace" by default.

[Cedric]

Latos is the best Reds starter since _______?

Anyone?

Johnny Cueto?

Seriously, he's a good pitcher, and you can see from his peripheral stats (k rate close to 9, doesn't walk too many or give up too many hits) that with a small step forward in any of those he is going to be a stud. However, he's never come close to the season Cueto just put up.

2010 was better than Cueto can ever put up. He was dominant. And Latos really wasn't worse than Cueto last year at all. Their FIP were extremely close. Look at what Latos did in the second half last year.

I love Cueto but he doesn't have anywhere near the ceiling that Latos has.

[membengal]

Latos means Cueto can be the team's #2. Which is a perfect spot for Cueto.