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Thread: D'backs sign Kubel

  1. #1
    Member mattfeet's Avatar
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    D'backs sign Kubel

    There goes that. Just reported by Ken Rosenthal on Twitter.

    -Matt

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    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: D'backs sign Kubel

    You beat me to it.

    mlbtraderumors is reporting it too. Probably off of Rosenthal.
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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: D'backs sign Kubel

    I don't get it. He's no better than Gerardo Parra, maybe worse.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: D'backs sign Kubel

    good. He's not someone I would want the Reds to sign. He had 1 or 2 good years. Look at this numbers and you will not be impressed.
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    Battle Toad Historian thatcoolguy_22's Avatar
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    Re: D'backs sign Kubel

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    good. He's not someone I would want the Reds to sign. He had 1 or 2 good years. Look at this numbers and you will not be impressed.
    Horrible defender and average bat. I still don't know why anyone on this board wants to pay FA price to downgrade the Reds OF. I'll stick with the Heisey/Sappelt LF combo over ragamuffins.

    EDIT: He got 2/15!! Its Jason Kubel! It seems the D'Backs are pressing to acquire just to acquire. Really 2 and 15?
    Last edited by thatcoolguy_22; 12-19-2011 at 11:42 AM.
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    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: D'backs sign Kubel

    Quote Originally Posted by thatcoolguy_22 View Post
    Horrible defender and average bat. I still don't know why anyone on this board wants to pay FA price to downgrade the Reds OF. I'll stick with the Heisey/Sappelt LF combo over ragamuffins.
    Chris Heisey (career) as a starter (410 PAs): .234 / .301 / .429

    Dave Sappelt: .243 / .289 / .318

    Add in Cozart as a great-unknown in his comeback from injury at SS, an inconsistently healthy Rolen at 3B (where his backup is a guy who can't tell a ball from a strike on a great day), and Jay "Good Month / Bad Month(s)" Bruce, and you've got a lineup that needs to do better in LF than 2 guys who are generously 4th OFs on most contending teams.
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    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: D'backs sign Kubel

    Quote Originally Posted by thatcoolguy_22 View Post
    EDIT: He got 2/15!! Its Jason Kubel! It seems the D'Backs are pressing to acquire just to acquire. Really 2 and 15?
    I was one of the posters wanting Kubel after the Alonso trade. That being said, I did not expect that he was going to get 2 years and 15 million. I also didn't realize just how bad his defense was. I agree, this may be a good thing that the Reds can't pay Kubel that much. That being said, I would still like to add Luke Scott.

    BTW, here is a link to the fangraphs article related to this signing.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...ubel-addition/

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    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: D'backs sign Kubel

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Chris Heisey (career) as a starter (410 PAs): .234 / .301 / .429

    Dave Sappelt: .243 / .289 / .318

    Add in Cozart as a great-unknown in his comeback from injury at SS, an inconsistently healthy Rolen at 3B (where his backup is a guy who can't tell a ball from a strike on a great day), and Jay "Good Month / Bad Month(s)" Bruce, and you've got a lineup that needs to do better in LF than 2 guys who are generously 4th OFs on most contending teams.
    I am in agreement with this post. That's why signing Beltran would be important.

    Although I do feel that Bruce and others will start putting it together soon.

    I think this is a make or break year for alot of the position players like Bruce, Stubbs, Votto, etc. If they pull another third place finish, and it's considered an underachievement, management may start making even bolder moves next offseason.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    Re: D'backs sign Kubel

    I don't think he's any better than Gomes to be honest.

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    Re: D'backs sign Kubel

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Chris Heisey (career) as a starter (410 PAs): .234 / .301 / .429

    Dave Sappelt: .243 / .289 / .318

    Add in Cozart as a great-unknown in his comeback from injury at SS, an inconsistently healthy Rolen at 3B (where his backup is a guy who can't tell a ball from a strike on a great day), and Jay "Good Month / Bad Month(s)" Bruce, and you've got a lineup that needs to do better in LF than 2 guys who are generously 4th OFs on most contending teams.
    Heisey: .780 OPS for 534 PA with a 5.5 UZR/150 for all 3 OF positions entering his age 27 season. Last year posted a 1.6 fWAR in about half a season of total PA and defensive innings. Makes league minimum.

    Sappelt: Citing a 118 PA sample size?

    2010 AA/AAA .964/.847 OPS 487 PA
    2011 AAA .834 OPS 336 PA

    From what I understand he was just coming back from an oblique injury for his Sept call-up. Throw in the fact that he will be a plus plus defender in LF and can handle his own in CF. Makes league minimum.

    Jason Kubel:Entering age 30 season, in 2011 put up a 1.1 fWAR over 401 PA with a .766 OPS. UZR/150 numbers for all OF positions (RF/LF)
    2006 -22.8
    2007 -9.8
    2008 -27.7
    2009 -17.7
    2010 -19.6
    2011 -7.1

    He will make 7.5 million this year. Really all this contract does is make me appreciate Heisey more.
    "Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier'n helpin' 'em move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load **** into a truck."

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    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: D'backs sign Kubel

    Quote Originally Posted by thatcoolguy_22 View Post
    Heisey: .780 OPS for 534 PA with a 5.5 UZR/150 for all 3 OF positions entering his age 27 season. Last year posted a 1.6 fWAR in about half a season of total PA and defensive innings. Makes league minimum.

    Sappelt: Citing a 118 PA sample size?
    I'm in the "defensive metrics are psuedoscience" camp -- Heisey seems to be an adequate defender, but I don't see anything particularly special about his game. And, I think it's fair to point out that Heisey shows extreme splits between his numbers as a starter and his numbers as a bat bench. When he's been given time to play (vs. pinch hitting and late-inning replacement), he has whiffed big-time.

    As for Sappelt, I'd agree that 118 PAs really isn't a great sample. But he's a little dude that doesn't show a lot of pop, is an incredibly free swinger, and just doesn't do any one thing well. Nice story, good roster fodder, but he's the kind of guy that needs to force his way onto a roster and force continued playing time with quality numbers vs. being counted on or penciled-in to do anything IMO.

    The bigger point is this: If the purpose of trading for Mat Latos was to "go for it" while Votto, Phillips and Rolen are all still under contract, why in the world are you settling for mediocrity at a premium offensive position?

    Go get a bat. If you're pushing all in, push all the damn chips in. Don't hold back and wonder what happened when you fall a little bit short.
    Last edited by Caveat Emperor; 12-19-2011 at 02:39 PM.
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    Battle Toad Historian thatcoolguy_22's Avatar
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    Re: D'backs sign Kubel

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I'm in the "defensive metrics are psuedoscience" camp -- Heisey seems to be an adequate defender, but I don't see anything particularly special about his game. And, I think it's fair to point out that Heisey shows extreme splits between his numbers as a starter and his numbers as a bat bench. When he's been given time to play (vs. pinch hitting and late-inning replacement), he has whiffed big-time.

    As for Sappelt, I'd agree that 118 PAs really isn't a great sample. But he's a little dude that doesn't show a lot of pop, is an incredibly free swinger, and just doesn't do any one thing well. Nice story, good roster fodder, but he's the kind of guy that needs to force his way onto a roster and force continued playing time with quality numbers vs. being counted on or penciled-in to do anything IMO.

    The bigger point is this: If the purpose of trading for Mat Latos was to "go for it" while Votto, Phillips and Rolen are all still under contract, why in the world are you settling for mediocrity at a premium offensive position?

    Go get a bat. If you're pushing all in, push all the damn chips in. Don't hold back and wonder what happened when you fall a little bit short.
    Fair enough. Agree to disagree on Heisey/Sappelt combo. I just don't think not signing Kubel means that WJ is going to stop the search for team improvement. The Reds are in a great position to continue improving the team this year. An estimated 15-20 million to reach the budget, a cupboard full of minor league talent(somewhat depleted), young SP depth that a team could covet(Wood/Bailey/Leake) without a huge loss to the major league club. There are a few LF options reported available that I would prefer to see him pursue. 2/15 is just too much for the Kubel's of the world.
    "Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier'n helpin' 'em move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load **** into a truck."

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    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: D'backs sign Kubel

    I know this is a Kubel thread, but I just read this article on FanGraphs about Beltran (a Kubel alternative) and it is making me want Beltran more...

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...eltran-market/

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    Re: D'backs sign Kubel

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I don't get it. He's no better than Gerardo Parra, maybe worse.
    Which is an ironic statement. Remember last season the Reds had interest in Parra, wonder if the D-Backs have soured on him? Not sure how Kubel fits them except as a LH off the bench, but they are paying him awful swell for that. Parra would be a solid fit for us.
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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: D'backs sign Kubel

    Among many other things about Sappelt, Doug tweeted this earlier today:

    In AAA, for their careers, Dave Sappelt has a higher BATTING AVERAGE than Chris Heisey has ON BASE PERCENTAGE.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.


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