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Thread: Closer: Down to Cordero or Madson?

  1. #91
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Closer: Down to Cordero or Madson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    For the most part, they didn't last season.
    For the most part Masset did well in 2010 and Arredondo should start 2012 healthy.

    .
    Last edited by Ron Madden; 12-30-2011 at 06:49 PM.

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  3. #92
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    Re: Closer: Down to Cordero or Madson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edd Roush View Post
    That's a major disappointment if Walt isn't talking to Madson at all. Why not at least find out what he's asking for? I can understand spinning the truth a little to strengthen your bargaining position, but there really isn't much gray area when he said he hasn't at all spoken with Madson's people...
    I don't really buy that Walt hasn't spoken to Boras. If it is true that the two have not spoken you also have to ask "Why hasn't Boras not spoken to the Reds about Madson?" If there is a team that has a hole at closer and is apparently in all-in mode, you represent a closer and few suitors are out there, why hasn't Boras called Walt? If true it makes little sense. Only reason if it is true is that Walt has made it clear that the Reds won't sign anyone this year but if you rep Madson you have to make that call anyway.

  4. #93
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    Re: Closer: Down to Cordero or Madson?

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    I don't really buy that Walt hasn't spoken to Boras. If it is true that the two have not spoken you also have to ask "Why hasn't Boras not spoken to the Reds about Madson?" If there is a team that has a hole at closer and is apparently in all-in mode, you represent a closer and few suitors are out there, why hasn't Boras called Walt? If true it makes little sense. Only reason if it is true is that Walt has made it clear that the Reds won't sign anyone this year but if you rep Madson you have to make that call anyway.
    Man, looks like they're focusing in on Coco. I hate that move. Some will say it is only 1yr/$7M, but in a close division a week of Bad Coco could spell doom. Our playoff chances might take a serious blow before Dusty decides he needs to make a move.

    $12M to Arroyo, $7M to Francisco, $6M to Rolen. I wonder what else$25M might buy? A year of Albert Pujols perhaps?
    Last edited by corkedbat; 12-30-2011 at 09:05 PM.

  5. #94
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    Re: Closer: Down to Cordero or Madson?

    Quote Originally Posted by corkedbat View Post
    Man, looks like they're focusing in on Coco. I hate that move. Some will say it is only 1yr/$7M, but in a close division a week of Bad Coco could spell doom. Our playoff chances might take a serious blow before Dusty decides he needs to make a move.

    $12M to Arroyo, $7M to Francisco, $6M to Rolen. I wonder what else$25M might buy? A year of Albert Pujols perhaps?
    The Reds might sign Cordero, but no way it's for anywhere near $7M. That's Fay's guess, so consider the source. If Cordero had an offer for over $5M right now, he would have taken it.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Closer: Down to Cordero or Madson?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    The Reds might sign Cordero, but no way it's for anywhere near $7M. That's Fay's guess, so consider the source. If Cordero had an offer for over $5M right now, he would have taken it.
    Even $5M is a waste (along with the other $18M).

  7. #96
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Closer: Down to Cordero or Madson?

    So is that $25 million going to Votto in 2014? Is there any way that could possibly happen?
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  8. #97
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    Re: Closer: Down to Cordero or Madson?

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    That's how you deal with Boras.

    Boras will not talk numbers, ever. He will not negotiate. He doesn't believe in putting a "ceiling" on his players. He simply asks that teams present their best offer, and then he says yes or no. All of his deals get done in less than a day from the time an offer is made and accepted.

    If you present too many offers, too early, you are just negotiating against yourself. I'm sure Jocketty understands this and is just playing high stakes poker, knowing the longer he waits, the lower the price. The only risk is, of course, if someone else makes an acceptable offer first, but it looks like that is not likely to happen.
    Exactly.

    If this were anyone else representing Madson, I would be a bit taken back by this news. But with Boras, he's a horse of a different color. When representing draft prospects, he often doesn't have first negotiations until a week or two before the deadline to sign. With free agents, he's often the same way.

    That the Reds haven't had talks with him is not really indicative of any interest (or lack thereof) in Madson. It simply means they're playing Boras' game. This is another reason I have been saying repeatedly that I expect the Reds to wait out Madson -- because with Boras that's going to be a requisite.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  9. #98
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    Re: Closer: Down to Cordero or Madson?

    Then why have discussions with Cordero? And an offer on the table?

    I think it's safe to assume Cordero is Plan A for the Reds. We all hope he refuses the deal, I know. Then, perhaps, Jocketty will turn to Madson as Plan B. But, IMO, the only logical way you can interpret this news is that Cordero is who the Reds are planning to close games.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  10. #99
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Closer: Down to Cordero or Madson?

    Why sweat a closer? Any reliever can come in and get 3 outs some percentage of the time. I forget what the percentage is.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  11. #100
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Closer: Down to Cordero or Madson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Then why have discussions with Cordero? And an offer on the table?

    I think it's safe to assume Cordero is Plan A for the Reds. We all hope he refuses the deal, I know. Then, perhaps, Jocketty will turn to Madson as Plan B. But, IMO, the only logical way you can interpret this news is that Cordero is who the Reds are planning to close games.
    That's what I'm getting from it. I'm resigned that Cordero is resigned.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
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  12. #101
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Closer: Down to Cordero or Madson?

    With that said, better get a bat for LF that can produce some offense.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

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  13. #102
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Closer: Down to Cordero or Madson?

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    With that said, better get a bat for LF that can produce some offense.
    Just what I've read several times
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  14. #103
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Closer: Down to Cordero or Madson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Then why have discussions with Cordero? And an offer on the table?

    I think it's safe to assume Cordero is Plan A for the Reds. We all hope he refuses the deal, I know. Then, perhaps, Jocketty will turn to Madson as Plan B. But, IMO, the only logical way you can interpret this news is that Cordero is who the Reds are planning to close games.
    Yup
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    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  15. #104
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Closer: Down to Cordero or Madson?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Just what I've read several times
    Maybe have some leads that aren't so hard to protect?
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

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  16. #105
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    Re: Closer: Down to Cordero or Madson?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Why sweat a closer? Any reliever can come in and get 3 outs some percentage of the time. I forget what the percentage is.
    I would prefer relievers who get the three outs a high percentage of the time. And can regularly do so in the late innings. I am unaware of any major league baseball team that throws any reliever out there in any situation because anyone supposedly can get three outs.

    I would much prefer Madson but if it's Cordero on a one year deal, hopefully he pitches as well or better than in 2011. If Coco wants more than one year my guess is he goes elsewhere. I sense the Reds won't go beyond a year with him.

    Coco isn't my first choice but he really takes a beating on this site. Guy was very good and durable for four seasons with the Reds.

    I would be ok with Marshall closing, but still want an additional good bullpen arm to help avoid last season's bullpen meltdown


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