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Thread: who is in the Reds pen in 2012?

  1. #1
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    who is in the Reds pen in 2012?

    Right now we have:
    Marshall (L)
    Bray (L)
    Lecure
    Massett
    Ondrusek
    Arredondo

    1) The team has said that Chapman is going to be a starter.
    Thats not what I would do but its what the Reds say they will do.
    2) Madson is the best free agent reliever but he seems out of the Reds price range.
    3) Several Reds relievers had poor 2nd halves in 2011. Its debatable whether this was due to fatigue or general ineptitude. Right now half of the Reds relievers had whips > 1.3 last year. That concerns me. The only guys who look trustworthy for late inning work in close games are Marshall, Bray & Lecure.

    It seems to that the Reds could use TWO good arms in the pen not just a 'closer'. I'd be fine with Marshall being the 9th inning guy. I would like Walt to focus on getting good solid arms for the pen & not just get a 'closer'.

    Who is out there besides Madson & Coco (who I think could pull a Ryan Franklin if we brought him back as the 9th inning guy)?

    Is Lidge healthy?
    Darren Oliver defies Father Time.
    Zumaya?
    Who else is out there that is a solid arm for the pen that the Reds could afford with their current budget?
    .

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    Re: who is in the Reds pen in 2012?

    Add Madson to this group and you have a real bullpen. Three years, $27 million. Then go cheap on LF.

    Big Coco fan but concerned about recent K rate. Would consider a one year deal but would much rather get Madson.

    Maybe add Chapman to your group pitching longer stretches.

    Even if no closer acquired would like to see one more big bullpen arm added. Even a young flamethrower.

  4. #3
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: who is in the Reds pen in 2012?

    To be honest I tried to forget Masset and Ondrusek existed during this offseason. I'd rather see what Judy or Brackman could do.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  5. #4
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: who is in the Reds pen in 2012?

    Horst is in the picture as well. Fisher and Smith are both on the 40 man, but almost assuredly AAA depth.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: who is in the Reds pen in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Add Madson to this group and you have a real bullpen. Three years, $27 million. Then go cheap on LF.

    Big Coco fan but concerned about recent K rate. Would consider a one year deal but would much rather get Madson.

    Maybe add Chapman to your group pitching longer stretches.

    Even if no closer acquired would like to see one more big bullpen arm added. Even a young flamethrower.
    I'd like to think that they add Madson, but I fear it'll be Coco.

    The closer, Marshall, Bray, Lecure and (probably Arredondo) are set. That leaves Ondrusek, Masset, Brackman, Judy, (possibly) Horst and someone yet to be acquaired (minor deal, waiver wire or 2nd tier FA) for one or two spots The 25th spot on the roster comes down to either a sixth bat on the bench or seventh arm in the bullpen. I see Fisher and Smith as depth at L'Ville at this point.

    The biggest boost the bullpen (and possibly the entire sraff) could receive, might be a turnaround season (and consistency) from Masset. He could be the key to a very strong picthing staff.
    Last edited by corkedbat; 12-26-2011 at 11:04 PM.

  7. #6
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: who is in the Reds pen in 2012?

    Sign Darren Oliver and Rich Harden to 1 year deals. Deal Masset, Jordan Smith and a couple of kids to the Rockies for Seth Smith.

    Marshall (CL)
    Arredondo
    Lecure
    Oliver
    Bray
    Harden (6th Starter)
    Ondrusek/Fisher/Horst/Brackman/Judy/Christiani
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  8. #7
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: who is in the Reds pen in 2012?

    They will sign someone else to bolster the bullpen.

    Marshall
    Bray
    LeCure
    Masset
    Arredondo
    Ondrusek
    And someone they sign, either Cordero, Madsen, or filler. Possibly Judy or Brackman, if he shows he's returned to form.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    Re: who is in the Reds pen in 2012?

    I think Judy has a chance to be in the Red pen and give a real boost to the Red pen. He could take the place of Ondrusek, Masset, or any number of guys Jocketty might deal in a trade for a LF. Or a better bullpen guy.

    For example, I could see a team like Houston taking on Masset and Ondrusek for, say, Carlos Lee, in the hopes that they could then sell that reliever on the open market in September.

    Lee didn't hit well in 2010, but did last season (though he lost power). He doesn't K all that much and has shown a willingness to take a walk. Perhaps playing with a contender recharges him a bit and hitting between Bruce and Votto means a lot of good pitches to hit. I could see a line of 300/350/500 from him in LF and as Votto's caddy at 1B.

    If Houston would pay most of Lee's salary ($12 million of the $18 million he's owed?), that should leave Jocketty and company enough to pay for Madson and perhaps deal for another reliever. Or sign one on the open market.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  10. #9
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: who is in the Reds pen in 2012?

    My opinion is that they will extend Marshall and then make him the closer. Then they will add another piece or two to the bullpen as insurance, and possibly trade 1 or 2 for other needs.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    Re: who is in the Reds pen in 2012?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    I think Judy has a chance to be in the Red pen and give a real boost to the Red pen. He could take the place of Ondrusek, Masset, or any number of guys Jocketty might deal in a trade for a LF. Or a better bullpen guy.

    For example, I could see a team like Houston taking on Masset and Ondrusek for, say, Carlos Lee, in the hopes that they could then sell that reliever on the open market in September.

    Lee didn't hit well in 2010, but did last season (though he lost power). He doesn't K all that much and has shown a willingness to take a walk. Perhaps playing with a contender recharges him a bit and hitting between Bruce and Votto means a lot of good pitches to hit. I could see a line of 300/350/500 from him in LF and as Votto's caddy at 1B.

    If Houston would pay most of Lee's salary ($12 million of the $18 million he's owed?), that should leave Jocketty and company enough to pay for Madson and perhaps deal for another reliever. Or sign one on the open market.
    I really don't hate this idea near as much as I thought I would, but it would take several Million Astro dollers to make me merely dislike it.

  12. #11
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: who is in the Reds pen in 2012?

    Carlos Fisher is out of options. If he doesn't make the team out of spring training, there's a very good chance he'll be playing for a different organization. He'll be 29 and has yet to show a willingness to throw strikes to big leaguers, so I'm really doubtful he'll stay in Cincinnati.

    Barring injuries, trades, retirement, something catastrophic, etc., we're going to see Sean Marshall, Nick Masset, Bill Bray, and Jose Arredondo in the pen. None of them have options, and all of them have some degree of Major League success. Jordan Smith has an outside shot of surprising people, but a lot of people seem to forget that he was looking very impressive (added a new pitch to his repertoire?) before struggling with injuries.

    Sam LeCure and Logan Ondrusek definitely have strong inside tracks and will need to be greatly outperformed in order to lose their positions. The guys who might be able to do that are Andrew Brackman, Josh Judy, Nick Christiani, and Jeremy Horst. However, if Chapman somehow starts the season as a reliever, there would be no room for Horst. And you never know--a journeyman like Chad Reineke, Sean Gallagher, Kanekoa Texeira, etc. might throw 20 innings of shutout ball, which could force the Reds to put them on the roster.

    All in all, here's what I'm expecting:
    closer: acquisition (Cordero? I hope not, but it's definitely possible.)
    set-up man: Masset
    left-handed relievers: Marshall & Bray
    middle relievers: Ondrusek & Arredondo
    long reliever: LeCure


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