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Thread: 2012 MLB Draft order

  1. #136
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    Re: 2012 MLB Draft order

    This. Marrero and Wacha are two guys I'd be disappointed with because of their lack of upside.
    Many didn't like the Leake pick for the same reason. Cozart too. In other words, try not to get too disappointed. There would be precedents for feeling at least a little hope.
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  3. #137
    I hate the Cubs LoganBuck's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 MLB Draft order

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Why? If the guy is a shortstop, and Marrero is, what does it matter that he can't hit somewhere else on the field since he won't be playing anywhere else on the field? Top it off with this draft being one of the weakest in the last 20 years and well, pickings are slim.
    I know that the MLB draft is a different animal, but the one of the position the Reds seem to have some semblance of depth at is shortstop. With Hamilton and Gregorious both being of similar age to Marrero, and with superior games, IMO. Couple that with Cozart, and the Reds should use their early picks to address other positions, like 3B or OF, and every team can always use more pitchers. I liked Marrero 3 years ago, in the 17th round. The Reds need some bats in the organization.

    There seem to be some HS OF guys, and both college and HS 3B and Pitchers that should be available. Just my own preference.
    The Sox traded Bullfrog the only player they've got for Shottenhoffen. Four-eyes Shottenhoffen a utility infielder. They've got a whole team of utility infielders.

  4. #138
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    Re: 2012 MLB Draft order

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    I know that the MLB draft is a different animal, but the one of the position the Reds seem to have some semblance of depth at is shortstop. With Hamilton and Gregorious both being of similar age to Marrero, and with superior games, IMO. Couple that with Cozart, and the Reds should use their early picks to address other positions, like 3B or OF, and every team can always use more pitchers. I liked Marrero 3 years ago, in the 17th round. The Reds need some bats in the organization.

    There seem to be some HS OF guys, and both college and HS 3B and Pitchers that should be available. Just my own preference.
    To be fair, I am not sure that Hamilton or Gregorius are better hitters than Marrero is in the long run. Gregorius is probably better defensively, but Hamilton certainly has his detractors that he can stay at shortstop (though I am not one of them, at least at this point). Hamilton shouldn't be playing SS at the MLB level right now defensively because he simply isn't ready. But with time, he could be (also couldn't be, but I would be in no rush to move him because of how he is right now).

  5. #139
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    Re: 2012 MLB Draft order

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Many didn't like the Leake pick for the same reason. Cozart too. In other words, try not to get too disappointed. There would be precedents for feeling at least a little hope.
    Leake had the best numbers in the nation when he came out. Cozart had a standout tool- his glove, and there is a big difference between the #14 and #79 (where Cozart went) overall picks. I don't think either of those guys fall into the category I'm talking about.

    I'm talking more about guys like Valaika, Frazier, Lohman, et al
    Other (pitching) examples include guys like Bryan Bullington, Alex Wimmers, etc.

    I am a big fan of this drafting regime currently in place. However, that doesn't mean all picks are good ones. Polished college position players without a single standout tool can only get you so far.
    Last edited by Benihana; 05-24-2012 at 03:58 PM.
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    Re: 2012 MLB Draft order

    Leake had the best numbers in the nation when he came out. Cozart had a standout tool- his glove, and there is a big difference between the #14 and #79 (where Cozart went) overall picks. I don't think either of those guys fall into the category I'm talking about.

    I'm talking more about guys like Valaika, Frazier, Lohman, et al
    Other (pitching) examples include guys like Bryan Bullington, Alex Wimmers, etc.

    I am a big fan of this drafting regime currently in place. However, that doesn't mean all picks are good ones. Polished college position players without a single standout tool can only get you so far.
    You clearly seem to think you have the right way of evaluating who the Reds should pick, year by year, and I am not going to change that.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  7. #141
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    Re: 2012 MLB Draft order

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    You clearly seem to think you have the right way of evaluating who the Reds should pick, year by year, and I am not going to change that.
    Get a little more snarky why don't you.

    I'm interested in discussing potential picks for the Reds, just like we've done on this board for over a decade. What's wrong with that? Isn't this a discussion board?

    As I said, I love this scouting regime for the Reds. Doesn't mean I can't comment on which prospects I like and which I don't- especially before the draft...
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  8. #142
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    Re: 2012 MLB Draft order

    A short video scouting report on Marrero.

    http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?c_...ic_id=29113154
    Zero chance the Reds miss the playoffs!

  9. #143
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    Re: 2012 MLB Draft order

    Get a little more snarky why don't you.

    I'm interested in discussing potential picks for the Reds, just like we've done on this board for over a decade. What's wrong with that? Isn't this a discussion board?

    As I said, I love this scouting regime for the Reds. Doesn't mean I can't comment on which prospects I like and which I don't- especially before the draft...
    Once you unburden yourself of the illusion that you're right about what kinds of profiles draftees should have based on draft slots in the top 100 picks, then we can discuss simple likes/dislikes. Until then, I'm not interested in engaging further.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  10. #144
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    Re: 2012 MLB Draft order

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Once you unburden yourself of the illusion that you're right about what kinds of profiles draftees should have based on draft slots in the top 100 picks, then we can discuss simple likes/dislikes. Until then, I'm not interested in engaging further.
    So don't engage. No one forced you into this thread. I'm certainly not interested in engaging with you.
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  11. #145
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    Re: 2012 MLB Draft order

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    To be fair, I am not sure that Hamilton or Gregorius are better hitters than Marrero is in the long run. Gregorius is probably better defensively, but Hamilton certainly has his detractors that he can stay at shortstop (though I am not one of them, at least at this point). Hamilton shouldn't be playing SS at the MLB level right now defensively because he simply isn't ready. But with time, he could be (also couldn't be, but I would be in no rush to move him because of how he is right now).
    I agree on all fronts. But I would argue that Hamilton's off-the-charts speed tool, coupled with how he has performed at the plate over the last 10 months, make him a significantly better prospect than Marrero at this time.
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  12. #146
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    Re: 2012 MLB Draft order

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Leake had the best numbers in the nation when he came out. Cozart had a standout tool- his glove, and there is a big difference between the #14 and #79 (where Cozart went) overall picks. I don't think either of those guys fall into the category I'm talking about.

    I'm talking more about guys like Valaika, Frazier, Lohman, et al
    Other (pitching) examples include guys like Bryan Bullington, Alex Wimmers, etc.

    I am a big fan of this drafting regime currently in place. However, that doesn't mean all picks are good ones. Polished college position players without a single standout tool can only get you so far.
    I will be the first to admit my judgement on players is not, nor should it be as good as people who need to make their living doing it. I don't have the time, the amount of information and the exposure to it they do.

    That being said, based on what I have seen I agree with Benihana in that Marrero would be disappointing. All his scouting reports make him look like a SS version of Drew Stubbs without the power potential. Good defender, long swing, poor pitch recognition.

  13. #147
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    Re: 2012 MLB Draft order

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Many didn't like the Leake pick for the same reason. Cozart too. In other words, try not to get too disappointed. There would be precedents for feeling at least a little hope.
    While I don't know enough about this year's draft crop to make any sort of judgment, I think you could argue that the Reds are in a different place as an organization than they were in years past and can afford to draft differently.

    There is a ton of young, controllable talent on the ML roster so there isn't as strong of a need to draft near ready prospects. The Reds are in a position where hitting every pick isn't quite as important and that affords them the opportunity to target higher ceiling prospects than they have in years past.

  14. #148
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    Re: 2012 MLB Draft order

    There is a ton of young, controllable talent on the ML roster so there isn't as strong of a need to draft near ready prospects. The Reds are in a position where hitting every pick isn't quite as important and that affords them the opportunity to target higher ceiling prospects than they have in years past.
    You've got posters all over this thread talking about drafting corner infielders and outfielders because of a perceived hole at the major league level. Always the back and forth between BPA and need....

    I consider this to be a pretty important draft class for the Reds. The system looks to be sagging a little to me. The couple supplemental picks gives them an opportunity to get a little extra boost, though it's unfortunate that the talent in this crop isn't considered to be all that great.
    Last edited by lollipopcurve; 05-25-2012 at 07:24 AM.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Re: 2012 MLB Draft order

    To be clear, my strategy for the early rounds of this draft is quite simple: BBA or BPiA

    Best Bat Available or Best Pitcher Available.

    I'm not into drafting defensive whizzes with limited offensive upside- at least not in the first couple rounds. We already have DiDi Gregorius, Miguel Rojas, Humberto Valor, Ryan LaMarre, Tucker Barnhart, and guys like that in the system. Before that we had Gookie Dawkins, Rey Olmedo, and many, many more. I want to see bats with huge upside- it matters a lot less to me what position they play (so long as they have the flexibility to play somewhere other than exclusively 1B). It just so happens that a lot of those bats are corner infielders or corner outfielders.

    Best pitcher available is pretty self-explanatory, although perhaps I should add that I'd like to see upside better than a #4 starter- at least in the first two rounds.
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  16. #150
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    Re: 2012 MLB Draft order

    To be clear, my strategy for the early rounds of this draft is quite simple: BBA or BPiA

    Best Bat Available or Best Pitcher Available.

    I'm not into drafting defensive whizzes with limited offensive upside- at least not in the first couple rounds. We already have DiDi Gregorius, Miguel Rojas, Humberto Valor, Felix Perez, Ryan LaMarre, Tucker Barnhart, and guys like that in the system. Before that we had Gookie Dawkins, Rey Olmedo, and many, many more. I want to see bats with huge upside- it matters a lot less to me what position they play (so long as they have the flexibility to play somewhere other than exclusively 1B). It just so happens that a lot of those bats are corner infielders or corner outfielders.

    Best pitcher available is pretty self-explanatory, although perhaps I should add that I'd like to see upside better than a #4 starter- at least in the first two rounds.
    Last edited by Benihana; 05-25-2012 at 11:17 AM.
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