Turn Off Ads?
Page 7 of 9 FirstFirst ... 3456789 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 121

Thread: 2012 NFL Draft Discussion

  1. #91
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    12,633

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    I disagree.

    It all depends on needs. I have seen Richardson to the Chiefs and in that instance I agree with you. They have Charles and even though they love the two back system wasting a first round pick on a 15-17 touch per game person does not seem like good business when you can get a good running back later.

    But if you are a team with no back then I can see taking Richardson in first round. Especially if you think he is Peterson/Jones-Drew good.

    Everything is needs. I hear the same argument about "Never take a safety with a high pick." Well, if you need a safety and feel one guy is head and shoulders above every other safety prospect then take him. Great players are great players. If you have a chance to take one you take him and sort out everything else later, IMO.
    Haven't checked this thread in a while, but I need to respond to this.

    The NFL is a pass-first league. Heck, you could argue that it's now a pass-second and pass-third league at this point. Successful teams -- the Patriots, Packers, Giants, Saints, even the Pittsburgh Steelers -- rely on big-time QB/WR/TE connections in order to move the ball and score points. Running games exist as a change of pace to a downfield passing attack. Most successful offenses have 2-3 back committees and tend to shy away from the prototypical "feature" back.

    Teams that have the great QB and playmakers at WR/TE can succeed with minimal support from the running game. Tom Brady makes the Super Bowl with Danny Woodhead and Benjarvis Green-Ellis carrying the ball. Eli Manning's Giants win the Super Bowl but didn't have a single back put up 700 yards (leading rusher, Bradshaw, a 7th round pick). Aaron Rodgers nearly went undefeated with an undrafted free-agent (Grant) and a 6th rounder (Starks) splitting carries.

    The inverse, however, is not true. Ray Rice has not been able to carry Joe Flacco and the Ravens middling WR corps to a Super Bowl. Maurice Jones-Drew cannot overcome the awful that has been Jacksonville's QB play during his career. Adrian Peterson's only sniff of glory came in a season where Brett Favre pulled a Lazarus act and put up great aerial numbers. Last season's fluke aside, Frank Gore hasn't led the Alex Smith-burdened 49ers to anything resembling good for the majority of his career.

    The feature back is a dying concept. Successful teams have figured this out while other teams are stuck in neutral, trying to scheme and gameplan to get touches for their running back.

    Drafting Trent Richardson is dinosaur thinking -- especially when you have the ability to get players who can help you pass the football or defend the pass instead. If you're drawing up a blueprint for building a great team, you'll need lots of good WRs, TEs, DBs, DEs, and a great QB. You won't ever need a great RB.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #92
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,690

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Haven't checked this thread in a while, but I need to respond to this.

    The NFL is a pass-first league. Heck, you could argue that it's now a pass-second and pass-third league at this point. Successful teams -- the Patriots, Packers, Giants, Saints, even the Pittsburgh Steelers -- rely on big-time QB/WR/TE connections in order to move the ball and score points. Running games exist as a change of pace to a downfield passing attack. Most successful offenses have 2-3 back committees and tend to shy away from the prototypical "feature" back.

    Teams that have the great QB and playmakers at WR/TE can succeed with minimal support from the running game. Tom Brady makes the Super Bowl with Danny Woodhead and Benjarvis Green-Ellis carrying the ball. Eli Manning's Giants win the Super Bowl but didn't have a single back put up 700 yards (leading rusher, Bradshaw, a 7th round pick). Aaron Rodgers nearly went undefeated with an undrafted free-agent (Grant) and a 6th rounder (Starks) splitting carries.

    The inverse, however, is not true. Ray Rice has not been able to carry Joe Flacco and the Ravens middling WR corps to a Super Bowl. Maurice Jones-Drew cannot overcome the awful that has been Jacksonville's QB play during his career. Adrian Peterson's only sniff of glory came in a season where Brett Favre pulled a Lazarus act and put up great aerial numbers. Last season's fluke aside, Frank Gore hasn't led the Alex Smith-burdened 49ers to anything resembling good for the majority of his career.

    The feature back is a dying concept. Successful teams have figured this out while other teams are stuck in neutral, trying to scheme and gameplan to get touches for their running back.

    Drafting Trent Richardson is dinosaur thinking -- especially when you have the ability to get players who can help you pass the football or defend the pass instead. If you're drawing up a blueprint for building a great team, you'll need lots of good WRs, TEs, DBs, DEs, and a great QB. You won't ever need a great RB.
    Next thing you know we'll be hearing about the smart teams that picked up the premier running backs to attack all the defenses that started stacking up to stop the rest of the pass happy league.

  4. #93
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,052

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Haven't checked this thread in a while, but I need to respond to this.

    The NFL is a pass-first league. Heck, you could argue that it's now a pass-second and pass-third league at this point. Successful teams -- the Patriots, Packers, Giants, Saints, even the Pittsburgh Steelers -- rely on big-time QB/WR/TE connections in order to move the ball and score points. Running games exist as a change of pace to a downfield passing attack. Most successful offenses have 2-3 back committees and tend to shy away from the prototypical "feature" back.

    Teams that have the great QB and playmakers at WR/TE can succeed with minimal support from the running game. Tom Brady makes the Super Bowl with Danny Woodhead and Benjarvis Green-Ellis carrying the ball. Eli Manning's Giants win the Super Bowl but didn't have a single back put up 700 yards (leading rusher, Bradshaw, a 7th round pick). Aaron Rodgers nearly went undefeated with an undrafted free-agent (Grant) and a 6th rounder (Starks) splitting carries.

    The inverse, however, is not true. Ray Rice has not been able to carry Joe Flacco and the Ravens middling WR corps to a Super Bowl. Maurice Jones-Drew cannot overcome the awful that has been Jacksonville's QB play during his career. Adrian Peterson's only sniff of glory came in a season where Brett Favre pulled a Lazarus act and put up great aerial numbers. Last season's fluke aside, Frank Gore hasn't led the Alex Smith-burdened 49ers to anything resembling good for the majority of his career.

    The feature back is a dying concept. Successful teams have figured this out while other teams are stuck in neutral, trying to scheme and gameplan to get touches for their running back.

    Drafting Trent Richardson is dinosaur thinking -- especially when you have the ability to get players who can help you pass the football or defend the pass instead. If you're drawing up a blueprint for building a great team, you'll need lots of good WRs, TEs, DBs, DEs, and a great QB. You won't ever need a great RB.
    The feature back may have morphed and changed but nothing else has really changed. So on one hand I agree that their value isn't what it once was the running game itself is no less utilized or for that matter important. If one drops into your lap at #17 and you have another pick four picks later you take him. And my guess is the Bengals will do so, and they will use him in a rotation and effectively. My only concern now about Richardson is can he handle a full load should they need him too? If DeCastro is there is there any doubt as to who the smart pick is? I think I have convinced myself that DeCastro should be taken ahead of him. Rather have the #1 OG and the #3 or #4 RB than vice versa. But looking at the draft I am starting to wonder if that is even possible, not sure I see 17 players worth taking up there which means both should be gone.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  5. #94
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,052

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Next thing you know we'll be hearing about the smart teams that picked up the premier running backs to attack all the defenses that started stacking up to stop the rest of the pass happy league.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  6. #95
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    12,633

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Next thing you know we'll be hearing about the smart teams that picked up the premier running backs to attack all the defenses that started stacking up to stop the rest of the pass happy league.
    NFL rules currently beg you to pass the football. Players are getting bigger, faster, and stronger -- but the defensive secondary is the only place on the field where being bigger and stronger can't help you, thanks to stricter enforcement on the BS "defenseless WR" rules and the no-contact past 5 yards rule. Add in the "hands off the QB" rules, and it becomes even closer to a skeleton drill.

    The pass-heavy NFL isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The college game has been trending to spread-offenses for over a decade, and the NFL rule changes have basically ensured the spread will see even more uniform adoption in the league in the coming years.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  7. #96
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    10,141

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    NFL rules currently beg you to pass the football. Players are getting bigger, faster, and stronger -- but the defensive secondary is the only place on the field where being bigger and stronger can't help you, thanks to stricter enforcement on the BS "defenseless WR" rules and the no-contact past 5 yards rule. Add in the "hands off the QB" rules, and it becomes even closer to a skeleton drill.

    The pass-heavy NFL isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The college game has been trending to spread-offenses for over a decade, and the NFL rule changes have basically ensured the spread will see even more uniform adoption in the league in the coming years.
    The Texans had a pretty darn good offense last season using Foster as a RB and a pass catching RB. The Ravens made up for a lot of Flacco's defencies by utilizing Ray Rice. The same can be said about the Bears and Forte before he and Cutler went down.

    NFL offenses will continue to exploit defences in any way they can. Last season it wasn't as much of the downfield threat that became the in thing to do, rather the TE creating mismatches. While I think the NFL is going more towards a pass heavy league, I think a pass catching RB is very valuable.

  8. #97
    Who wants a mustache ride Ohayou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    891

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft Discussion

    Rams agree to trade #2 overall pick to Redskins. Three first round picks and a second rounder. That is an insane haul for any player.
    Choo got it, dude.

  9. #98
    NL Central champs
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    North Dakota
    Posts
    472

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ohayou View Post
    Rams agree to trade #2 overall pick to Redskins. Three first round picks and a second rounder. That is an insane haul for any player.
    Quarterbacks that are drafted in the first round are such a crapshoot. It is stupid for a team to make a trade like this. If RG III turns out like Jamarcus Russell or Alex Smith then this franchise is guaranteed to be awful for the next five years with no high-end young talent.

    Personally I think RG III is overated, he would literally have to become a top 10 QB in the NFL in order for this to be considered a good trade, how likely is that? When RG III enters the NFL, I think teams will try to contain him in the pocket and make him throw against NFL coverages. IMO, RG III will not play well when he has to rely solely on his arm.

    Take a look at this list of QB's drafted in the first round in the last ten years:

    2001- Michael Vick (#1)
    2002- David Carr (#1)
    Joey Harrington
    Patrick Ramsey
    2003- Carson Palmer (#1)
    Bryon Leftwich
    Kyle Boller
    Rex Grossman
    2004- Eli Manning (#1)
    Phillip Rivers
    Ben Rothleisberger (sp?)
    J.P. Losman
    2005-Alex Smith (#1)
    Aaron Rodgers
    Jason Campbell
    2006-Vince Young
    Matt Leinart
    Jay Cutler
    2007-JaMarcus Russell (#1)
    Brady Quinn
    2008-Matt Ryan
    Joe Flacco
    2009-Matthew Stafford
    Mark Sanchez
    Josh Freeman
    2010- Sam Bradford (#1)
    Tim Tebow

    There are only about 5 or 6 QB's on that list that I would make that trade for.
    Last edited by VottoFan54; 03-09-2012 at 11:31 PM.

  10. #99
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    3,158

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Ohayou View Post
    Rams agree to trade #2 overall pick to Redskins. Three first round picks and a second rounder. That is an insane haul for any player.
    I think the Vikings and Ditka have competition now for most lopsided trade of all times... I don't see this one ending well for Washington because the idiot owner and the man that John Elway made a star will figure out some way to screw this up.
    Quote Originally Posted by moewan View Post
    Barmaid to patron "Sir you are slurring, I am going to have to cut you off"

    Patron to barmaid "I'm not slurring, I'm speaking in cursive"


  11. #100
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    3,158

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by VottoFan54 View Post
    Quarterbacks that are drafted in the first round are such a crapshoot. It is stupid for a team to make a trade like this. If RG III turns out like Jamarcus Russell or Alex Smith then this franchise is guaranteed to be awful for the next five years with no high-end young talent.

    Personally I think RG III is overated, he would literally have to become a top 10 QB in the NFL in order for this to be considered a good trade, how likely is that? When RG III enters the NFL, I think teams will try to contain him in the pocket and make him throw against NFL coverages. IMO, RG III will not play well when he has to rely solely on his arm.

    Take a look at this list of QB's drafted in the first round in the last ten years:

    2001- Michael Vick (#1)
    2002- David Carr (#1)
    Joey Harrington
    Patrick Ramsey
    2003- Carson Palmer (#1)
    Bryon Leftwich

    Kyle Boller
    Rex Grossman
    2004- Eli Manning (#1)
    Phillip Rivers

    Ben Rothleisberger (sp?)
    J.P. Losman
    2005-Alex Smith (#1)
    Aaron Rodgers
    Jason Campbell
    2006-Vince Young
    Matt Leinart
    Jay Cutler
    2007-JaMarcus Russell (#1)
    Brady Quinn
    2008-Matt Ryan
    Joe Flacco
    2009-Matthew Stafford
    Mark Sanchez
    Josh Freeman
    2010- Sam Bradford (#1)
    Tim Tebow

    There are only about 5 or 6 QB's on that list that I would make that trade for.
    Bolded above are who I would consider it at the time they were drafted. I was higher on Leftwich than probably most because I thought his game would translate better in the NFL than he ended up making it. Other names I would have considered for that Peyton of course... Other than that no way.
    Quote Originally Posted by moewan View Post
    Barmaid to patron "Sir you are slurring, I am going to have to cut you off"

    Patron to barmaid "I'm not slurring, I'm speaking in cursive"


  12. #101
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,901

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft Discussion

    What a haul for the Rams. They are the sure winners here. They have a QB. Now they have 5 first round picks over the next 3 years.

  13. #102
    The Lineups stink. KronoRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    West N. Carolina
    Posts
    55,622

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft Discussion

    It's always a treat every NFL off season to see the Redskins shoot themselves in the foot.
    Go Gators!

  14. #103
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, FL
    Posts
    4,844

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft Discussion

    That was pretty dumb by the Redskins... unless it turns out not to be. It's hard to sniff a Super Bowl nowadays without a pretty good quarterback, and if a team hasn't had one in virtually forever, it's almost duty-bound to take the shot even if the odds are against it working out. It's not like they've been getting anywhere with the Campbells and washed-up McNabbs of the world.
    Not all who wander are lost

  15. #104
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Posts
    3,869

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft Discussion

    As a Skins fan, I'm excited about the prospect of seeing RGIII play, but I can't help but have that uneasy feeling in the pit of my stomach after what they gave up. It's the same feeling I've had for much of the past two decades. Man, this better work out.
    "I can make all the stadiums rock."
    -Air Supply

  16. #105
    Kmac5 KoryMac5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Waterloo, NY
    Posts
    3,681

    Re: 2012 NFL Draft Discussion

    I was wondering why Cleveland changed direction pretty quick and set it's sights on Flynn. Washington gave up too much on this deal and the only way to justify it is for them to get to the Super Bowl. Lot of pressure on RGIII to perform. I do like Washington's team though so it should be interesting to see how this plays out.
    If you have a losing record at Reds games, please stop going.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25