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Thread: One Man's Larkin Opinion

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    One Man's Larkin Opinion

    As a Red's fan since the early seventies I feel like I am missing something when I hear people say Larkin is a shoo-in hall of famer. The Larkin I followed for many years would have been a no doubt hall of famer had he been able to stay healthy. However he averaged only 120 games a year his last TEN years. He and Griffey Jr's inability to stay healthy and the fact that they made up over 50% of the teams payroll set the Reds back for many years. I remember a guy who refused any notion of a position switch that may have made his team better. I remember a very selfish player towards the end of his career. I remember a guy that tore his captains logo off of his jersey because he didn't agree with a front office decision.. I also remember a guy who though has never been linked to steroids, went off and hit 33 homers in one year after barely reaching 20 only once before in his career.I know there are a lot of Larkin supporters here, but I for one would much rather be waiting tomorrow for Dave Concepcion, a true hall of famer in my opinion to get the call. Ready, Aim, Fire.

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    Re: One Man's Larkin Opinion

    I would love for Concepcion to get the call! But I think it's more romantic than reality, unfortunately.

    Fact of matter is Larkin did have better numbers at the plate.

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    They call me "chef"
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    Re: One Man's Larkin Opinion

    Take it easy on mikemo everyone. He's just sharing his opinion. No need for name calling, he's a Reds fan like you and me.
    Cincinnati Reds 2014 W-L Record: 76.6-85.4*

    Cincinnati Reds 2015 W-L Record: TBA

    *UPDATED: 2/11/2014

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    Re: One Man's Larkin Opinion

    Barry Larkin is the best player i've ever seen the Reds have until Joey Votto got here. Also, you should thank him for the tantrum he threw when the Reds were unloading all their players, I think by tearing off his captain C he was actually showing leadership, and pushing the front office to win. Shortly after that tantrum was when we acquired Greg Vaughn and Griffey if I remember correctly. Granted, the Griffey trade didn't work out well, but no one in the world thought it was going to turn out the way it did. I loved Larkin, I'll give you that he could be considered a selfish player, but I doubt there are many great players that couldn't be considered that. He spent his entire career in Cincinnati, when he most likely could've gotten a bigger contract elsewhere, so that shows some selflessness, and he also courted Griffey to Cincinnati, which again didn't work out, but seemed great at the time. I'd vote for Larkin in a heartbeat, if he's not a HOFer than neither is Derek Jeter. Also, its ridiculous to accuse someone of steroids because they had a season with above average power numbers.

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    Re: One Man's Larkin Opinion

    When someone's stats are still HOF shoo in after all those injuries, it makes them MORE impressive IMO, not less. Regardless of how many games he did or didn't play, all his stats and accolades stack up well with any shortstop in the Hall.

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    Re: One Man's Larkin Opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by mikemo14 View Post
    As a Red's fan since the early seventies I feel like I am missing something when I hear people say Larkin is a shoo-in hall of famer. The Larkin I followed for many years would have been a no doubt hall of famer had he been able to stay healthy. However he averaged only 120 games a year his last TEN years. He and Griffey Jr's inability to stay healthy and the fact that they made up over 50% of the teams payroll set the Reds back for many years. I remember a guy who refused any notion of a position switch that may have made his team better. I remember a very selfish player towards the end of his career. I remember a guy that tore his captains logo off of his jersey because he didn't agree with a front office decision.. I also remember a guy who though has never been linked to steroids, went off and hit 33 homers in one year after barely reaching 20 only once before in his career.I know there are a lot of Larkin supporters here, but I for one would much rather be waiting tomorrow for Dave Concepcion, a true hall of famer in my opinion to get the call. Ready, Aim, Fire.
    OK so he missed a lot of time

    you need 10 year to be voted on

    He missed about 4 years over 19 years, YES that is a lot

    But it also means he put those numbers up using only 15 years, 5 more than required. Those are HOF stats for 15 years or 19 years


    And for someone who claims to be a fan since the seventies, why are you only concentration on the final years of Barry's career? Barry only played with Jr for 5 years. You seems to be forgetting the 14 years he played before Jr showed up
    Last edited by Krawhitham; 01-09-2012 at 03:12 PM.

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    Re: One Man's Larkin Opinion

    I don't claim to be a Red's fan since the seventies, I have been a die hard Reds fan since hearing Marty Brennaman broadcast his first spring training game in'73. I simply believe that Barry Larkin in his last ten years of his career was a major reason why the Reds became what they did for several years, a team with a few selfish players that won very little of nothing. Obviously 86% of the voters saw it a lot different than I did.

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    throws 106. NBD.
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    Re: One Man's Larkin Opinion

    Cool, one less fan making the trip to Cooperstown. That just means one more chair for the rest of us.

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    Re: One Man's Larkin Opinion

    Mike, we are entiltled to our opinions. I will say that, while I don't agree with yours, it is well thought out and very well stated. Mostly I will say, congratulations for posting a dissenting opinion without trolling. It is refreshing to read a well constructed minority opinion. Keep writing on RZ.
    What if this is as good as it gets?

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    Re: One Man's Larkin Opinion

    Funny how some fans can call him selfish while his actual teammates say just the opposite. Lark was always willing to sacrifice himself by grounding to the right side and advancing the runner to second. Nothing "selfish" about that.

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    Re: One Man's Larkin Opinion

    Larkin was arguably the greatest shortstop of his era definately in the top ten of all time there is no way he shouldn't be in the hall. Davey should too just compare the stats to the wizard defensively very similar just less awards offensively he was better so why he isn't in I have no idea

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    Re: One Man's Larkin Opinion

    I agree with mikemo14 regarding Larkin's selfishness. Other examples include
    1) He and Griffey leaving the dugout early during the last game of the season and effectively getting Jack McKeon fired (this was a particularly childish and revealing episode on Barry's part)
    2) The squashed trade with the Mets and holding the Reds over the barrel for a multiyear, lavish contract at the end of his career.
    I'm sure there are other examples. One just always got the sense that Barry's only priority was Barry.

    But note that all of his transgressions occured "off the field". Yeah, he would volunteer to bat anywhere and give up himself by hitting behind runners. He was a consummate team baseball player and deserves to be in the Hall. Just didn't quite have the great character traits as is being portrayed in most of the media.
    Huh? Huh-uh. Oh yeah, uh-huh.

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    Re: One Man's Larkin Opinion

    His career OPS is .150 points higher than Ozzie Smith, who was a first ballot HOF. Ozzie was a better fielder but not near enough to make up a .150 point difference. Barry even had a 4 WAR advantage despite playing 400 less games than Ozzie. Barry is a HOFer and should have been one on the first ballot.

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    Re: One Man's Larkin Opinion

    mikemo14, are you really Kurt Stillwell? Just kiddin'.

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    Re: One Man's Larkin Opinion

    Another example I just discovered at mlb.com in an article by Marty Noble regarding a proposed move of Barry to shortstop. The quote is attributed to Larkin:

    "I didn't want to do it, but I begrudgingly went over there and tried," Larkin said. "I think I had a ball go between my legs, and I wasn't real happy with it. And I remember Chief Bender, I had a conversation with him, and Chief told me that he thought the organization thought it was best if I played second base, because I would not be able to play shortstop because my ... the stuff that I did just wasn't shortstop quality or Major League quality.

    "I remember that vividly. I remember my conversation with him. We were at the pool in Indianapolis at some hotel. He called me down, I thought I was getting called up to the big leagues. I was in Triple-A at the time. Tommie Reynolds was the manager. Chief said, 'You know, you need to move to second base.' I remember walking away thinking, 'Well, you guys just need to trade me because you told me ... the organization told me ... I would play shortstop. I'm going to play shortstop.' I didn't say that to him but that's what I felt, and that's what I believed.

    "I do remember going out after that and playing second base and, you know, I dragged myself out there. I certainly didn't put all of everything into it, but I did play second base. I think it was a couple games in the Minor Leagues, and after that second ball went between my legs, I think that was the end of that experiment."

    The last paragraph is indicative of Larkin's selfishness, in particular, in HIS OWN WORDS:

    I certainly didn't put all of everything into it, but I did play second base.

    Certainly? Wow. That is a shocker. So this is the great teammate and leader? Worthy of being a captain?

    Ouch.
    Huh? Huh-uh. Oh yeah, uh-huh.


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