Who is Redszone's #23 prospect?

[camisadelgolf]

#1 C Devin Mesoraco
#2 SS Billy Hamilton
#3 SS Zack Cozart
#4 RHP Dan Corcino
#5 RHP Robert Stephenson
#6 1B Neftali Soto
#7 OF Yorman Rodriguez
#8 UT Todd Frazier
#9 SS Didi Gregorius
#10 2B Henry Rodriguez
#11 LHP Tony Cingrani
#12 OF Juan Duran
#13 RHP Kyle Lotzkar
#14 3B Gabriel Rosa
#15 C Tucker Barnhart
#16 3B David Vidal
#17 RHP J.C. Sulbaran
#18 OF Ryan LaMarre
#19 1B Donald Lutz
#20 OF Denis Phipps
#21 RHP Tim Crabbe
#22 RHP Andrew Brackman

[texasdave]

Is it just me or is there no poll?

[camisadelgolf]

Is it just me or is there no poll?

It's there now. When you create a thread with a poll, the poll will not be shown until it is completed. In the meantime, you can see a thread without the poll.

[texasdave]

It's there now. When you create a thread with a poll, the poll will not be shown until it is completed. In the meantime, you can see a thread without the poll.

You learn something new every day.

[dougdirt]

Buckley. I am a sucker for power. He might wind up moving off of third though.

[mace]

I can find nothing not to like about Brodie Greene. His first year was uninspired, but the only mark against the season he had last year was that it took place in Bakersfield. Altogether, he went .287/.343/.433/.775 with 14 HR and 38 steals, showing some power, lots of speed and plenty of versatility. He played 73 games at 2B, 49 at SS and even 3 in the OF. I saw him play one game at short in 2010, and, for what it's worth, he made a dandy play deep in the hole. Best of all, I think, he has been described a dirty-shirt kind of guy. In terms of type (not making projections here), I guess I see him as sort of a cross between Todd Frazier and Dustin Pedroia.

[dougdirt]

I can find nothing not to like about Brodie Greene. His first year was uninspired, but the only mark against the season he had last year was that it took place in Bakersfield. Altogether, he went .287/.343/.433/.775 with 14 HR and 38 steals, showing some power, lots of speed and plenty of versatility. He played 73 games at 2B, 49 at SS and even 3 in the OF. I saw him play one game at short in 2010, and, for what it's worth, he made a dandy play deep in the hole. Best of all, I think, he has been described a dirty-shirt kind of guy. In terms of type (not making projections here), I guess I see him as sort of a cross between Todd Frazier and Dustin Pedroia.

I guess I would counter with: a .780 OPS in the California League was .001 points better than league average. So his numbers at least, weren't that impressive.

I ranked him in my Top 40, but I think its still a bit early for him here.

[mace]

I guess I would counter with: a .780 OPS in the California League was .001 points better than league average. So his numbers at least, weren't that impressive.

I ranked him in my Top 40, but I think its still a bit early for him here.

I'll take league-average for a middle infielder. That aside, the things I like most about him are not really reflected in OPS--speed, versatility and makeup, combined with pretty nice production.

[dougdirt]

I'll take league-average for a middle infielder. That aside, the things I like most about him are not really reflected in OPS--speed, versatility and makeup, combined with pretty nice production.

Sure, but he isn't young for the level either, so league average isn't exactly good either. I like him enough that I wouldn't be bothered by someone voting him here. Just presenting the other side of the argument on him. He was very impressive in the AFL.

[11larkin11]

I'm a Josh Smith fan. Hopefully he can stay as a starter, I liked what I saw from him last year.

[lollipopcurve]

Greene -- would be about 10 slots higher on my list

[dougdirt]

Greene -- would be about 10 slots higher on my list

Have to ask.... why?

He was a 4th round pick just last season. He OPS'd under .800 in the California League as a 23 year old, so numbers aren't really good and he wasn't young for the level, actually old for the level. What about that suggests he is a Top 15 prospect for you? I have him in the late 20's after all of the trades. I like him, but not enough to put him that high.

[mace]

He was a 4th round pick just last season. He OPS'd under .800 in the California League as a 23 year old, so numbers aren't really good and he wasn't young for the level, actually old for the level.

The average age for hitters in the California League was 22.7; for pitchers 23.2. That makes the overall average age about 22.95. I don't really think that classifies Greene, at 23, as "actually old for the level."

[dougdirt]

The average age for hitters in the California League was 22.7; for pitchers 23.2. That makes the overall average age about 22.95. I don't really think that classifies Greene, at 23, as "actually old for the level."

Actual Major League prospects shouldn't be "league average age" though. For a guy considered to be an actual Major League prospect, Greene at 23 in High A is old.

Go down the Reds roster. How many of those guys, especially non relief pitchers, were 23 for an entire season in High A? How about even half of a season?

Stubbs spent half a season at 23 in High A and he finished out in AAA. Paul Janish spent half/a little more than half a season at High A at 23. Chris Heisey spent nearly a full season there. Ryan Hanigan spent a full season at High A at 23. Fred Lewis did.

That is it. You know what those guys have in common aside from Hanigan? They aren't good hitters. While every player is different, generally the younger you are at a level while holding your own, the better you are going to be in the future. The older you are, the more you should be hitting.

The ideal prospect age for each level is:

Rookie Ball: 18-19
Low A: 19-21
High A: 20-22
Double A: 21-23
Triple A: 22-24

The younger the better.

[mace]

Actual Major League prospects shouldn't be "league average age" though. For a guy considered to be an actual Major League prospect, Greene at 23 in High A is old.

Go down the Reds roster. How many of those guys, especially non relief pitchers, were 23 for an entire season in High A? How about even half of a season?

Stubbs spent half a season at 23 in High A and he finished out in AAA. Paul Janish spent half/a little more than half a season at High A at 23. Chris Heisey spent nearly a full season there. Ryan Hanigan spent a full season at High A at 23. Fred Lewis did.

That is it. You know what those guys have in common aside from Hanigan? They aren't good hitters. While every player is different, generally the younger you are at a level while holding your own, the better you are going to be in the future. The older you are, the more you should be hitting.

The ideal prospect age for each level is:

Rookie Ball: 18-19
Low A: 19-21
High A: 20-22
Double A: 21-23
Triple A: 22-24

The younger the better.

I agree that the younger the better. We all do, pretty much. But you're slicing this one pretty thin.

Greene didn't start in pro ball until he was 22. After his junior year at A&M, he was drafted by the Phillies in the 37th round but elected to go back for his senior year. It paid off, as the Reds took him in the fourth round last year. Then they sent him straight to High-A Lynchburg--actually jumped him over Ryan LaMarre and Devin Lohman, who were drafted ahead of him. In that respect, he very much meets your criteria of being fast-tracked.

After a partial season at Lynchburg, he returned to that level at Bakersfield--in large part, I suspect, because the Reds had Henry Rodriguez, Cody Puckett and Miguel Rojas already at Carolina. (When Rojas was hurt, they moved up Gregorius, a pure shortstop and higher-ranked prospect.) Even after a second year at High-A (the first year was just a partial, of course), he remains on the same track as LaMarre, who is our #18 prospect.

Yes, he's a year older than LaMarre--a function, obviously, of that extra year in college. But he's still only two years out of college. Stubbs didn't play in High-A until his third year removed from college. The same for Heisey. So Greene is solidly on pace with those guys, maybe even ahead. In retrospect, do you think Stubbs was worthy of being ranked #23 in our poll? Was Heisey?

Your objections to Greene don't really hold up.

I've linked a 2010 article from the Lynchburg paper in which Greene is discussed as a guy who made an unexpectedly rapid rise to High-A:

http://www2.newsadvance.com/sports/2...voi-ar-320695/