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Thread: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

  1. #166
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    WOW:

    Madson had 2.2 WAR last year.
    Marshall had 2.5 WAR last year.

    4.7 WAR in 125 innings between these two in 2012 would be amazingly awesome!
    Unofficial Johnny Cueto Cy Young Campaign President For Reds Fans by a Reds Fan
    Johnny Cueto's Next Start:
    AUGUST 20, 7:15 PM ET @ Busch Stadium
    MORTAL COMBAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  3. #167
    Senor Votto Degenerate39's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    They Reds owe me something. On my birthday or the before or after it it seems like they always make a big move. They got Chapman a few years ago on January 9th or 10th. Now Madson on my birthday the 10th.
    Most Vottomatic Player

  4. #168
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Masset, I believe, is arbitration eligible and probably would get over $2 million. If Reds are now looking to shed some salary, I see Nick as the likely one to be moved.
    Now THAT would make this an awesome offseason. But then again, Massett might be just fine to do a 1/2 punch with Arredondo as the first righty out of the pen.
    Can't win with 'em

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  5. #169
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    FIP does not matter when it comes to a closer. The thing that matters is if they save the game or not. That is it. Its the most bottom line position in baseball, in my opinion. I never said that Coco was good. However he did give the Reds 37 saves last season. The whole point I'm trying to drive home is that by adding 4-5 extra saves, does that make the Reds a 90 win team in 2012? If Madson gives the Reds 42 saves in 2012, does that close the gap enough to be division winners?
    FIP absolutely, 100% matters. It matters a whole heck of a lot more than saves. It is a much better indicator of future success than any counting stat.

    Cordero got by with a completely unsustainable BABIP last year, and the regression to the mean alone would have been very scary for Reds fans. Madson is a MUCH better pitcher, and saves should in no way even enter the conversation when comparing the two. If Madson saves 10 less games than Cordero did, it doesn't mean the Reds win 10 less games, which is what you're implying. Madson was almost 2 WAR better than Cordero last year, and with the way Cordero is trending, he Madson may be more than 2 WAR better than Cordero in 2012.

    The best way to evaluate pitchers is by the metrics they can control. Per Joel Luckhaupt:

    Over last 3 seasons, Cordero walked 10.2% of batters faced and struck out 18.4%. Over same time, Madson was 6.5% BB & 26.1% K. #Reds
    The two are on completely different planets as far as their current abilities as pitchers.

  6. #170
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Is it opening day yet???

  7. #171
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    FIP absolutely, 100% matters. It matters a whole heck of a lot more than saves. It is a much better indicator of future success than any counting stat.

    Cordero got by with a completely unsustainable BABIP last year, and the regression to the mean alone would have been very scary for Reds fans. Madson is a MUCH better pitcher, and saves should in no way even enter the conversation when comparing the two. If Madson saves 10 less games than Cordero did, it doesn't mean the Reds win 10 less games, which is what you're implying. Madson was almost 2 WAR better than Cordero last year, and with the way Cordero is trending, he Madson may be more than 2 WAR better than Cordero in 2012.

    The best way to evaluate pitchers is by the metrics they can control. Per Joel Luckhaupt:



    The two are on completely different planets as far as their current abilities as pitchers.
    It does and it doesn't matter. If I'm arguing who had a better year(in the past), I'll take the guy with more saves and fewer blown saves. But if I'm trying to determine who will likely have a better year next year, give me the guy with a better FIP, WAR, what have you.

    It's like appreciating that a certain guy came up clutch without betting millions that he's likely to do it again.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  8. #172
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by Homer Bailey View Post
    FIP absolutely, 100% matters. It matters a whole heck of a lot more than saves. It is a much better indicator of future success than any counting stat.

    Cordero got by with a completely unsustainable BABIP last year, and the regression to the mean alone would have been very scary for Reds fans. Madson is a MUCH better pitcher, and saves should in no way even enter the conversation when comparing the two. If Madson saves 10 less games than Cordero did, it doesn't mean the Reds win 10 less games, which is what you're implying. Madson was almost 2 WAR better than Cordero last year, and with the way Cordero is trending, he Madson may be more than 2 WAR better than Cordero in 2012.

    The best way to evaluate pitchers is by the metrics they can control. Per Joel Luckhaupt:



    The two are on completely different planets as far as their current abilities as pitchers.
    You're completely missing his point.

  9. #173
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Admittedly I haven't read through all 12 pages so my apologies but have length and terms of the contract been released/leaked?

  10. #174
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    This move makes the pen better, but...

    Bailey has never topped 135 IP.

    Arroyo, who i like for a nice little comeback will be 35.

    Leake is still young, and was erratic enough to get demoted last year. He also has maturity issues.

    I like this is a 1 year commitment. Allows the Reds to determine if Chapman is a starter at a more leisurely pace. IF the rotation holds up. I believe the pen will be better if the rotation is better. On paper it obviously is with the addition of Latos. But Cueto need to pitch 200 innings. Leake too. Bailey needs to crack 175. The rotation needs to be as good in real life as they appear to be on paper.

    just some perspective. Madson is nice. Shields would have been much better than nice.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  11. #175
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Admittedly I haven't read through all 12 pages so my apologies but have length and terms of the contract been released/leaked?
    It seems to be 1 year, early report was $10M+, but there has been a revised rumor that its $8.5M
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  12. #176
    I'm gettin paper Homer Bailey's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by osuceltic View Post
    You're completely missing his point.
    Which is?

  13. #177
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Admittedly I haven't read through all 12 pages so my apologies but have length and terms of the contract been released/leaked?
    1 year, something like $8.5 million. Could earn upwards of $10 million if he hits incentives.

  14. #178
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Random thought: love it that WJ has not bought into the notion that he building the Reds to suit their ballpark meant all in on sluggers, as the idiot Bowden did. However, he did pick up guys with a history of keeping the ball in the yard, so he is also not ignoring the fact that he needs pitchers who can minimize the cheap homers allowed by his own staff.

    But building a pitching/defense squad that plays half its games in GABP? Many would have disagreed with that strategy.
    Last edited by traderumor; 01-11-2012 at 09:59 AM.
    Can't win with 'em

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  15. #179
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Great job Walt! The Reds are in it to win this year. I'm loving the way the bullpen looks. This is going to be one exciting season!

  16. #180
    Member Sea Ray's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    It seems to be 1 year, early report was $10M+, but there has been a revised rumor that its $8.5M
    That works. He's clearly an improvement over Coco and it'll save us all a bit of Alka Seltzer at the end of games. I'm one who's constantly evaluating matchups and how we measure up to out opponent and my gut feeling last year in a tie game and they put in Madson while we put in Coco: advantage Phillies


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