WOW:
Madson had 2.2 WAR last year.
Marshall had 2.5 WAR last year.
4.7 WAR in 125 innings between these two in 2012 would be amazingly awesome!
WOW:
Madson had 2.2 WAR last year.
Marshall had 2.5 WAR last year.
4.7 WAR in 125 innings between these two in 2012 would be amazingly awesome!
2015 Rotation: Under Construction
They Reds owe me something. On my birthday or the before or after it it seems like they always make a big move. They got Chapman a few years ago on January 9th or 10th. Now Madson on my birthday the 10th.
Now THAT would make this an awesome offseason. But then again, Massett might be just fine to do a 1/2 punch with Arredondo as the first righty out of the pen.Originally Posted by Kc61
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
FIP absolutely, 100% matters. It matters a whole heck of a lot more than saves. It is a much better indicator of future success than any counting stat.
Cordero got by with a completely unsustainable BABIP last year, and the regression to the mean alone would have been very scary for Reds fans. Madson is a MUCH better pitcher, and saves should in no way even enter the conversation when comparing the two. If Madson saves 10 less games than Cordero did, it doesn't mean the Reds win 10 less games, which is what you're implying. Madson was almost 2 WAR better than Cordero last year, and with the way Cordero is trending, he Madson may be more than 2 WAR better than Cordero in 2012.
The best way to evaluate pitchers is by the metrics they can control. Per Joel Luckhaupt:
The two are on completely different planets as far as their current abilities as pitchers.Over last 3 seasons, Cordero walked 10.2% of batters faced and struck out 18.4%. Over same time, Madson was 6.5% BB & 26.1% K. #Reds
Is it opening day yet???
It does and it doesn't matter. If I'm arguing who had a better year(in the past), I'll take the guy with more saves and fewer blown saves. But if I'm trying to determine who will likely have a better year next year, give me the guy with a better FIP, WAR, what have you.
It's like appreciating that a certain guy came up clutch without betting millions that he's likely to do it again.
You're completely missing his point.
Admittedly I haven't read through all 12 pages so my apologies but have length and terms of the contract been released/leaked?
This move makes the pen better, but...
Bailey has never topped 135 IP.
Arroyo, who i like for a nice little comeback will be 35.
Leake is still young, and was erratic enough to get demoted last year. He also has maturity issues.
I like this is a 1 year commitment. Allows the Reds to determine if Chapman is a starter at a more leisurely pace. IF the rotation holds up. I believe the pen will be better if the rotation is better. On paper it obviously is with the addition of Latos. But Cueto need to pitch 200 innings. Leake too. Bailey needs to crack 175. The rotation needs to be as good in real life as they appear to be on paper.
just some perspective. Madson is nice. Shields would have been much better than nice.
Dubito Ergo Cogito Ergo Sum.
It seems to be 1 year, early report was $10M+, but there has been a revised rumor that its $8.5M
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
Which is?
1 year, something like $8.5 million. Could earn upwards of $10 million if he hits incentives.
Random thought: love it that WJ has not bought into the notion that he building the Reds to suit their ballpark meant all in on sluggers, as the idiot Bowden did. However, he did pick up guys with a history of keeping the ball in the yard, so he is also not ignoring the fact that he needs pitchers who can minimize the cheap homers allowed by his own staff.
But building a pitching/defense squad that plays half its games in GABP? Many would have disagreed with that strategy.
Last edited by traderumor; 01-11-2012 at 09:59 AM.
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
Great job Walt! The Reds are in it to win this year. I'm loving the way the bullpen looks. This is going to be one exciting season!
That works. He's clearly an improvement over Coco and it'll save us all a bit of Alka Seltzer at the end of games. I'm one who's constantly evaluating matchups and how we measure up to out opponent and my gut feeling last year in a tie game and they put in Madson while we put in Coco: advantage Phillies
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