"I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.
"Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread
Will there be a option year? I recall reading the Reds were still negotiating with Madson to include one.
Jimmy Pitchalot was the greatest pitcher of my generation.
"Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."
Luck is a part of the game. It can be extracted out of the equation for more accurate talent evaluation, but it's still an inextricable part of a player's historical production. ERA, luck dependent or not, is what happened. If Madson puts up the exact same numbers as Cordero next year, but with a better FIP, we haven't added any additional production to the team.
From Jayson Stark:
I'm hearing Ryan Madson's deal w #Reds includes mutual option for 2013 with a buyout. Enables team to push some of Madson's $ into next year
I miss Adam Dunn.
Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.
I fully expected the Reds to be active in the off-season trading market. So the Latos and Marshall trades didn't surprise me.
But while I was barking and woofing about the Reds signing Madson, in my heart of hearts, I really didn't expect it to happen. Too many years of small-thinking front office behavior has made me feel like a kid with his nose pressed against the front window of the candy store.
To me, this is more of a signal that the Reds are serious about 2012 than any other move made so far.
I like the option element, but let's face it: If Madson has a good year, he's declining his option and hoping for a big payday in free agency.
Further, you still are begging the question with the term "production," because I don't think there has been any agreement on that term in the discussion. I would say that all a pitcher produces is what happens to the ball after he throws it, but only insofar as he controls what happens to the ball. A save may be a measurement (a very weak measurement, mind you) of production, but it is not what the pitcher is producing.
Last edited by traderumor; 01-11-2012 at 02:47 PM.
Can't win with 'em
Can't win without 'em
If your pitcher has a 2.20 ERA (5.50 FIP) but goes 5-15, is he still a valuable pitcher?
If you are going to base it on results to determine value, don't you have to look at the bottom line, wins and losses?
You say who cares if he pitches poorly as long as he doesn't give up runs. If that is true, then who cares how many runs he gives up as long as he wins.
If you want to equate Cordero's perforamce last year with Madson's this year based on actual results, why look at ERA? Look at saves, blown saves and wins and loses. The ERA is irrelevant in any event.
Love the Madson signing. We might have a shot this year. Willingham would have made this the perfect offseason.
2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9 2015 Attendance Record: 2-0
2011 Attendance Record: 3-4 2012 Attendance Record: 3-4
2013 Attendance Record: 5-2 2014 Attendance Record: 3-1