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Thread: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

  1. #241
    Member MattyHo4Life's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    I thought teams don't have to do that in the new CBA??
    You might be right, but I thought they had ot surrender a pick if the FA was offered a 12Mil deal from their current team.

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  3. #242
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyHo4Life View Post
    You might be right, but I thought they had ot surrender a pick if the FA was offered a 12Mil deal from their current team.
    You may be right also. I'm not sure what the new compensation system really calls for. Does anyone know?
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  4. #243
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    I think this is especially important to note since relievers are so notoriously volatile. Seven closers have signed contracts this off-season, and Madson is guaranteed the second-least amount of money among all of them (Matt Capps, the worst closer available, is getting paid the least). Next to Jon Papelbon, Madson was the best closer available. Jocketty really came out ahead here.

  5. #244
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by MattyHo4Life View Post
    You might be right, but I thought they had ot surrender a pick if the FA was offered a 12Mil deal from their current team.
    I don't think you surrender a pick, but they get a comp. pick.

  6. #245
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    IMO, this signing fills the most critical need. Now they can go on to the other two needs, a 4th OF and a starting pitcher who will accept a minor league deal. Turning the Reds into a stronger contender to both make and advance in the post season makes them more attractive to the available player pool.

    I continue to believe that Cody Ross is the preferred outfielder. As for pitchers, history shows that beyond the starting five at least two additional starters will be needed at some time during the season. At the moment they would be Chapman and LeCure. Thus the need for at least one more option. A pitcher who signs a minor league contract might now foresee a decent chance to be in the starting rotation of a contender before the season is over. There are plenty of candidates still out there. I'd like to think that Walt now has his pick.

    Finally, one of the benefits of having such a strong bullpen is that it takes some pressure off of the starters.

  7. #246
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    I don't think you surrender a pick, but they get a comp. pick.
    Right. Teams get a comp pick if they make a qualifying offer and then the player signs elsewhere. The pick is not taken away from the team that signs the player.
    Not all who wander are lost

  8. #247
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by RED VAN HOT View Post
    IMO, this signing fills the most critical need. Now they can go on to the other two needs, a 4th OF and a starting pitcher who will accept a minor league deal. Turning the Reds into a stronger contender to both make and advance in the post season makes them more attractive to the available player pool.

    I continue to believe that Cody Ross is the preferred outfielder. As for pitchers, history shows that beyond the starting five at least two additional starters will be needed at some time during the season. At the moment they would be Chapman and LeCure. Thus the need for at least one more option. A pitcher who signs a minor league contract might now foresee a decent chance to be in the starting rotation of a contender before the season is over. There are plenty of candidates still out there. I'd like to think that Walt now has his pick.

    Finally, one of the benefits of having such a strong bullpen is that it takes some pressure off of the starters.
    I am so glad you brought up that crucial point. I hear Reds fans say things like "There's no room for Chapman in the rotation ... we already have Latos, Cueto, Leake, Bailey and Arroyo."

    Well, how often do the 5 men that begin the season in the starting rotation make it all the way through without an injury (or poor performance which causes a demotion)? Hardly ever. So, undoubtedly Chapman will be needed. Or if he's not up to par, another person that can step into the rotation like LeCure, or the FA-on-the-cheap that many are speculating (minor league deal with invite to ST).

    I also agree about Cody Ross. I think he's the Reds' preference and both sides might have somewhat of an agreement, but are allowing Ross to make sure that another team doesn't step up and offer him good money. I think Cody Ross-to-Cincy is a relatively safe bet. If that falls through, I like Ryan Ludwick as the next-best option.

    I love that #4 OF (or #3 depending on how you look at it) is the team's biggest remaining offseason priority. Walt's been gettin' work done!

  9. #248
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post

    I also agree about Cody Ross. I think he's the Reds' preference and both sides might have somewhat of an agreement, but are allowing Ross to make sure that another team doesn't step up and offer him good money. I think Cody Ross-to-Cincy is a relatively safe bet. If that falls through, I like Ryan Ludwick as the next-best option.

    I love that #4 OF (or #3 depending on how you look at it) is the team's biggest remaining offseason priority. Walt's been gettin' work done!
    As I said in a different thread, Cody Ross is not a great fit. He feasts on lefties. The Reds led the NL in hitting against lefties. It's not a need.

    The Reds need a guy who hits righties. Ludwick is a better choice based on lifetime stats. Fukadome is a decent choice. There are probably others. Maybe JD Drew if healthy enough.

    I'm hoping it's Ludwick with whom the Reds have an understanding.
    Last edited by Kc61; 01-11-2012 at 10:27 PM.

  10. #249
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    I am so glad you brought up that crucial point. I hear Reds fans say things like "There's no room for Chapman in the rotation ... we already have Latos, Cueto, Leake, Bailey and Arroyo."

    Well, how often do the 5 men that begin the season in the starting rotation make it all the way through without an injury (or poor performance which causes a demotion)? Hardly ever. So, undoubtedly Chapman will be needed. Or if he's not up to par, another person that can step into the rotation like LeCure, or the FA-on-the-cheap that many are speculating (minor league deal with invite to ST).

    I also agree about Cody Ross. I think he's the Reds' preference and both sides might have somewhat of an agreement, but are allowing Ross to make sure that another team doesn't step up and offer him good money. I think Cody Ross-to-Cincy is a relatively safe bet. If that falls through, I like Ryan Ludwick as the next-best option.

    I love that #4 OF (or #3 depending on how you look at it) is the team's biggest remaining offseason priority. Walt's been gettin' work done!
    I definiyely agree on needing another experienced starter. I was hoping they'd be able to stash someone liek Malholm or Cook in L'Ville for this purpose. Not sure who else is left. Zach Duke? Or do you go after someone like Francis, Saunders or Harden and maybe carry the 6th starter as a long man?

    I disagree about Ross.
    Last edited by corkedbat; 01-11-2012 at 09:55 PM.

  11. #250
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    As I said in a different thread, Cody Ross is not a great fit. He feasts on lefties. The Reds led the NL in hitting against lefties. It's not a need.

    The Reds need a guy who hits righties. Ludwick is a much better choice. Fukadome is a decent choice. There are probably others. Maybe JD Drew if healthy enough.

    I'm hoping it's Ludwick with whom the Reds have an understanding.
    Ludwick hit LHP better than RHP last year, he bottomed out vs. RHP big time. His BABIP leveled out acrossed the board last year and thus we see him struggle, intriguing. But having only 2 CF's is a bit risky, which is why I suspect Ankiel will be the guy they sign. Well that and the fact Ankiel will just be happy to be on a roster whereas Ludwick is looking to get a starting gig still.

    My biggest issue with it all is if Ludwick is essentially an older less athletic version of Heisey, why would you want him? Yeah Ross kills LHP (.900+ OPS) but he does ok vs. RHP (.727 OPS) also and plays far better defense and at all OF positions (CF in a pinch). I'd rather have someone who can do something outstanding than someone who is maybe slightly better in a critical area but more mediocre across the board. Find a guy who isn't a black hole in some part of his game but hits RHP as well as Cody hits LHP and I'll back that play.
    Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 01-11-2012 at 10:01 PM.
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  12. #251
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    I am so glad you brought up that crucial point. I hear Reds fans say things like "There's no room for Chapman in the rotation ... we already have Latos, Cueto, Leake, Bailey and Arroyo."

    Well, how often do the 5 men that begin the season in the starting rotation make it all the way through without an injury (or poor performance which causes a demotion)? Hardly ever. So, undoubtedly Chapman will be needed. Or if he's not up to par, another person that can step into the rotation like LeCure, or the FA-on-the-cheap that many are speculating (minor league deal with invite to ST).

    I also agree about Cody Ross. I think he's the Reds' preference and both sides might have somewhat of an agreement, but are allowing Ross to make sure that another team doesn't step up and offer him good money. I think Cody Ross-to-Cincy is a relatively safe bet. If that falls through, I like Ryan Ludwick as the next-best option.

    I love that #4 OF (or #3 depending on how you look at it) is the team's biggest remaining offseason priority. Walt's been gettin' work done!
    I was hoping they'd be able to stash someone liek Malholm or Cook in L'Ville for this purpose. Not sure who else is left. Zach Duke? Or do you go after someone like Francis, Saunders or Harden and maybe carry the 6th starter as a long man?

  13. #252
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    Ludwick hit LHP better than RHP last year, he bottomed out vs. RHP big time. His BABIP leveled out acrossed the board last year and thus we see him struggle, intriguing. But having only 2 CF's is a bit risky, which is why I suspect Ankiel will be the guy they sign. Well that and the fact Ankiel will just be happy to be on a roster whereas Ludwick is looking to get a starting gig still.

    My biggest issue with it all is if Ludwick is essentially an older less athletic version of Heisey, why would you want him?
    Ludwick lifetime hits righties above .800 OPS. I haven't checked last year, it's only one year. Generally, he's been pretty good against righties for a RHH.

    If Heisey and the new outfielder both hit righties well, then Reds can sit Stubbs sometimes against tougher righties. Stubbs struggles against righties.

    My fear is that the Reds will go for a Cody Ross or another guy who feasts on lefties. That is not what the Reds need, as the numbers plainly show.

    The Reds need to improve against righty pitching. To do that, they should add guys who hit righty pitching. Whatever the particular name may be.
    Last edited by Kc61; 01-11-2012 at 10:23 PM.

  14. #253
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Ludwick lifetime hits righties above .800 OPS. I haven't checked last year, it's only one year. Generally, he's been pretty good against righties for a RHH.

    If Heisey and the new outfielder both hit righties well, then Reds can sit Stubbs sometimes against tougher righties. Stubbs struggles against righties.

    My fear is that the Reds will go for a Cody Ross or another guy who feasts on lefties. That is not what the Reds need, as the numbers plainly show.
    I'm not so sure about that. Minus Ramon from the equation and go beyond BP and Votto, i.e. deeper into the lineup and we are hit or miss all the way around no matter the handedness of the opposition. We are relying on Rolen getting healthy and Stubbs getting it together. I won't go so far as to say we don't need better hitting vs. RHP as we do but we need better hitting overall more than anything and IMO there isn't many available better than Cody Ross from an overall standpoint.
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  15. #254
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    Quote Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo View Post
    I'm not so sure about that. Minus Ramon from the equation and go beyond BP and Votto, i.e. deeper into the lineup and we are hit or miss all the way around no matter the handedness of the opposition. We are relying on Rolen getting healthy and Stubbs getting it together. I won't go so far as to say we don't need better hitting vs. RHP as we do but we need better hitting overall more than anything and IMO there isn't many available better than Cody Ross from an overall standpoint.
    i mean just look at the numbers from last year. The Reds led the NL in OPS against lefties. Phillips kills lefties. Votto kills lefties. Rolen kills lefties. Even Stubbs hits lefties well. Hanigan too.

    The Reds had a .717 OPs against righties. 8th place in the NL.

    You may like Cody Ross, but the numbers are what they are. The Reds problem was not overall hitting. It was hitting against righty pitching. They should address the need.

    If not Ludwick, then somebody else reliable against righties.
    Last edited by Kc61; 01-11-2012 at 10:29 PM.

  16. #255
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    Re: Reds Sign Ryan Madson

    I'm in the minority on a few things:

    1. I guess I'm one of the few who has faith in Francisco. I think he has a lot of upside and will be fine at 3B when Rolen is done after 2012 or if he goes down with injury during 2012. I'm not worried about 3B at all. And my gut feeling is that Rolen is going to pull a Berkman.......and here's why I think that. I think Scott knows this could be his last season and wants to finish on a high note. I see him coming into the season in the best shape he's been in for a long time. Just my gut feeling.

    2. All this worrying about depth at starting pitcher. How many do you need? I keep hearing 7. Well we have Latos, Cueto, Leake, Bailey, Arroyo, Chapman and, wait for it, wait for it..........LECURE. Geez. Quit worrying about it. And someone else will step forward at Louisville as a viable option. They always do.

    3. Of the remaining LF options, I prefer Fukudome.

    4. Another gripe of mine. I was listening to Mo Eggar's show today and so many people call in and complain about all the prospects the Reds traded for Latos and Marshall, and act like it's the end of the world and the Reds will never have a good team after going for it all in 2012. Ridiculous. Here's the list of guys who have been on the 25 man roster in 2010 and 2011 that were drafted by the Reds - Hanigan, Mesoraco, Votto, Alonso, Cozart, Janish, Francisco, Heisey, Stubbs, Bruce, Sappelt, Cueto, Leake, Bailey, Wood, Ondrusek, Lecure, and I'm sure some I'm forgetting. It's like people think the farm system is going to dry up and disappear or something. If you read the minor league forum, the so-called experts said last year's Dayton team was the most talented Dayton team ever. There is plenty of talent in the farm system. And most of it won't be needed until 2013 or 2014. Have some faith. I get so sick and tired of hearing that nonsense on the radio.
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