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Thread: HardBallTimes article on Bob Howsom

  1. #1
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    HardBallTimes article on Bob Howsom

    Here is a link to an article from Hard Ball Times about why Bob Howsam may not be in the Hall Of Fame. The basis is from a book written by Bill White claiming he was not well liked in St. Louis and seemed to suffer from an over inflated ego.

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...-hall-of-fame/

    Most of the things White mentioned aren't things I had heard before, so really I have no idea.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: HardBallTimes article on Bob Howsom

    Interesting article. I don't think Howsam can be criticized for being a penny pincher. Show me an executive back then who wasn't. Nearly all teams took the same tactic when it came to negotiating before free agency was instituted. To me, Bill White seems like an angry old man with an ax to grind. Maybe it's justified, maybe it's not. I know that some players in Cincinnati were unhappy with the regime's negotiating tactics, but I can never recall any of the players trashing Howsam personally.

    Even if the stories are all true, it wouldn't be the first time an ultra successful individual was found to have an inflated ego, haha.

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    Re: HardBallTimes article on Bob Howsom

    The pre 67 Reds were not mired in any mediocrity. 1962-65 they on average won over 90 games. They were a good team that could never get their pitching and hitting together at the same time. So this guy wrote that very wrong.

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    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: HardBallTimes article on Bob Howsom

    Interesting that they won more games in 1962 (98) than they did in the pennant winning year of 1961 (93). Much harder to get to the post season then. In 1963, they won 86, 1964 they won 92, and in 1965 they won 89. Hardly bad records by today's standards, but only one team from each league represented back then.
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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: HardBallTimes article on Bob Howsom

    Bill White calling someone else an egotist? Takes one to know one, I guess. There is not a much more arrogant baseball man than Bill White.

    As for the writer's conclusions, I'm baffled that the architect of arguably the best starting 8 of all time and the renowned BRM should be held out by petty political and personal preferences. To say that the actions described in the article disqualify someone because of a character flaw of trying to save payroll $ and enforce a culturally acceptable "clean" rules? Silly.
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    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: HardBallTimes article on Bob Howsom

    Howsam's tenure with the Reds speaks for itself. No way anyone can deny it.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

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    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: HardBallTimes article on Bob Howsom

    The article noted that White is on the Veteran's Committee which votes for the HOF. Isn't Joe Morgan on the committee as well?
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

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    Member Phhhl's Avatar
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    Re: HardBallTimes article on Bob Howsom

    It is easy to take shots at people who are no longer with us. The world, or even the mid-west of The United States, does not revolve around the city of St. Louis and it's charming baseball franchise. Bob Howsam was the architect of the Big Red Machine, one of the greatest teams in the history of the game. No single St. Louis squad even comes close to that club's status in the history of the game. Case closed. Sparky, JB, Joe Morgan and Tony Perez have all vouched for him at the podium in Cooperstown. If Howsam was abrassive to some along the way and made some enemies, does that really stand against emperical evidence that this man deserves to be in the Hall of Fame? It can be argued that no individual was more important to the 1975-76 dynasty Reds than Bob Howsam.

    C'mon man! This article is trash.
    Last edited by Phhhl; 01-14-2012 at 03:36 AM.

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    Member Phhhl's Avatar
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    Re: HardBallTimes article on Bob Howsom

    This article is a hack job. I have seen every member of the Big Red machine who has been inducted into the Hall of Fame include Howsam prominently in their speeches. I have heard Pete Rose, who would not have tolerated Howsam as an extroverted racist, praise Bob Howsam on wlw many times. Sparky nearly came to tears talking about Howsam every time he was a topic of an interview. I don't discount Bill White in any way. Howsam may have been a world class jerk when he was in the Cardinals front office. But, it is a crime that this man is not in the Hall. Until someone produces better evidence of why he shouldn't be than the memories of Bill White, it will continue to be an injustice.

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: HardBallTimes article on Bob Howsom

    Quote Originally Posted by Santo Alcala View Post
    It is easy to take shots at people who are no longer with us. The world, or even the mid-west of The United States, does not revolve around the city of St. Louis and it's charming baseball franchise. Bob Howsam was the architect of the Big Red Machine, one of the greatest teams in the history of the game. No single St. Louis squad even comes close to that club's status in the history of the game. Case closed. Sparky, JB, Joe Morgan and Tony Perez have all vouched for him at the podium in Cooperstown. If Howsam was abrassive to some along the way and made some enemies, does that really stand against emperical evidence that this man deserves to be in the Hall of Fame? It can be argued that no individual was more important to the 1975-76 dynasty Reds than Bob Howsam.

    C'mon man! This article is trash.
    Can't win with 'em

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  12. #11
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: HardBallTimes article on Bob Howsom

    Quote Originally Posted by Santo Alcala View Post
    It is easy to take shots at people who are no longer with us. The world, or even the mid-west of The United States, does not revolve around the city of St. Louis and it's charming baseball franchise. Bob Howsam was the architect of the Big Red Machine, one of the greatest teams in the history of the game. No single St. Louis squad even comes close to that club's status in the history of the game. Case closed. Sparky, JB, Joe Morgan and Tony Perez have all vouched for him at the podium in Cooperstown. If Howsam was abrassive to some along the way and made some enemies, does that really stand against emperical evidence that this man deserves to be in the Hall of Fame? It can be argued that no individual was more important to the 1975-76 dynasty Reds than Bob Howsam.

    C'mon man! This article is trash.
    I was surprised too. It's very poor taste for White to take these shots at Howsam after he is gone.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.


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