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Thread: One more move?

  1. #16
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    Re: One more move?

    I'm still surprised no one has brought up Omar Vizquel's name. He has said he wants to play another year. Switch hitter and would be a great mentor to Cozart.

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  3. #17
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    Re: One more move?

    Kepp brings nothing that Frazier doesn't trump.

    Stubbs absolute kills LHP and his numbers in the 2 hole are as follow:

    Drew Stubbs 2011 AB AVG OBP SLG OPS
    vs. Left 113 .319 .418 .478 .896
    vs. Right 491 .226 .298 .338 .636
    Batting #1 408 .250 .329 .373 .702
    Batting #2 22 .364 .462 .500 .962
    Batting #6 127 .220 .291 .323 .614
    Batting #7 31 .161 .235 .290 .525
    Batting #8 11 .273 .333 .455 .788
    Batting #9 5 .200 .333 .400 .733

    2B B.Phillips
    CF D.Stubbs/Heisey
    1B J.Votto
    LF Ludwick
    RF J.Bruce
    3B S.Rolen/Francisco
    C Hanigan/Mesoraco
    SS Z.Cozart
    Pitcher

    Stubbs and Heisey should split the time in Center at worst and IMO Heisey should get the majority of all AB's against rightys.

    Chris Heisey 2011 AB AVG OBP SLG OPS
    vs. Left 61 .197 .258 .295 .553
    vs. Right 218 .271 .324 .541 .865
    Batting #1 66 .242 .311 .576 .887
    Batting #2 14 .357 .400 .857 1.257
    Batting #3 1 .000 .000 .000 .000
    Batting #4 7 .143 .333 .143 .476
    Batting #5 52 .269 .296 .577 .873
    Batting #6 61 .213 .300 .377 .677
    Batting #7 22 .182 .250 .182 .432
    Batting #8 4 .500 .500 .500 1.000
    Batting #9 52 .308 .321 .500 .821

  4. #18
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    Re: One more move?

    What does Kepp bring that Frazier trumps?

    Veteran presence? Nope

    Better career stats? Nope

    Better projections for 2012? Depends on what you want? BA and OBP then Keppinger wins

    The ability to play multiple positions? Frazier can play the OF but isn't that why we signed Ludwick? And if Cozart goes down for a prolonged period of time I'd rather have Kepp at SS than Frazier.

    The only thing I think Frazier has an edge on is that he is younger and cheaper but not better.

  5. #19
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    Re: One more move?

    Quote Originally Posted by dMaus14 View Post
    What does Kepp bring that Frazier trumps?

    Veteran presence? Nope

    Better career stats? Nope

    Better projections for 2012? Depends on what you want? BA and OBP then Keppinger wins

    The ability to play multiple positions? Frazier can play the OF but isn't that why we signed Ludwick? And if Cozart goes down for a prolonged period of time I'd rather have Kepp at SS than Frazier.

    The only thing I think Frazier has an edge on is that he is younger and cheaper but not better.
    The moves I would make to get keppinger to fit would be to get him on the 40 man dump carlos Fischer the guy has to be almost out of options anyways then demote janish to Louisville to get him on the 25 man that way you still have frazier's versatility on the 25 man roster and you have your veteran back up.

  6. #20
    Have Faith In Dusty DGullett35's Avatar
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    Re: One more move?

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    Paul Janish was not even close to being a horrible defensive player last year. Where are these misconceptions born?

    http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...rs=0&sort=21,d

    If you look at all NL shortstops that played 700 or more innings - roughly half a season's worth - you will find Paul Janish at the top of the list defensively. Oh, by the way, if you are looking for Ryan Theriot he is at the bottom.

    I see where your coming from but if I remember correctly janish didnt look that spectacular in the field in the beginning of last year when he was getting most of his playing time. in fact I remember a couple games where he booted some easy balls. He started 80 games last year and played in 103(just at SS) and had 10 Errors. thats not spectacular. that would be 20 errors for the whole season. Omar Vizquel used to play 150 games a year and have only 5 errors for the year. Thats a GREAT defensive SS. He will make the routine play 9/10 times but you never see Janish make the spectacular plays. Alls I'm saying is that hes not as great defensively as everyone seems to think, and IMO thats the misconception. For a guy known for his defense its not as great as it should be. he may have had a nice minor league career defensively but it hasn't totally translated into the show. IMHO Id rather have Theriot thats all. and Theriot isnt known for his defense. the guy can handle a bat
    Last edited by DGullett35; 01-19-2012 at 10:47 AM.

  7. #21
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    Re: One more move?

    I think Janish's bat needs to improve if he's going to stay on the big league roster. His defense is good but not as good as what it is thought to be.

  8. #22
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    Re: One more move?

    Unless we release/option Janish there is no room on the 25 or 40 man for Theriot or Keppinger. And that's with Frazier starting at AAA.

  9. #23
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    Re: One more move?

    Keep Ryan Theriot and his -8.5 UZR far away from Cincinnati's left side of the infield. You don't need a good bat in the shortstop position, especially with the weapons the Reds have almost everywhere else on the field. Janish is a GREAT fielder, and if you judge a shortstop by his number of errors, you're severely missing the point. Janish gets to balls that Vizquel, Keppinger, and especially Theriot have no shot at, so he has great value as a late-innings replacement and spot starter. I don't understand people's fascination with losing defensive ability for a little bit of offense at the most important defensive position on the field. Plus, there's a very small chance Janish has the horrid year at the plate he did last year. It'll most likely be somewhere between his last two years. Not good, but not so bad that you can't have him on the roster.

  10. #24
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    Re: One more move?

    Quote Originally Posted by WildcatFan View Post
    Keep Ryan Theriot and his -8.5 UZR far away from Cincinnati's left side of the infield. You don't need a good bat in the shortstop position, especially with the weapons the Reds have almost everywhere else on the field. Janish is a GREAT fielder, and if you judge a shortstop by his number of errors, you're severely missing the point. Janish gets to balls that Vizquel, Keppinger, and especially Theriot have no shot at, so he has great value as a late-innings replacement and spot starter. I don't understand people's fascination with losing defensive ability for a little bit of offense at the most important defensive position on the field. Plus, there's a very small chance Janish has the horrid year at the plate he did last year. It'll most likely be somewhere between his last two years. Not good, but not so bad that you can't have him on the roster.
    Tell me. When Keppinger was a Red and starting at short, Did you havea any problem with his defense? I know i didn't and personally if Janish could hit .260 i would say start him but he can't and i'm not sure with the way the game is anymore if you can afford to have someone who doesn't hit .250 starting no matter how good of defense they can play.

  11. #25
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    Up until the end of the season who really values late inning defensive replacements until September and the playoffs? Not a lot of teams. Valuing a late inning defensive replacement is like running your offense around the sacrifice bunt. There's no real need for it until playoff time.

  12. #26
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    Re: One more move?

    Quote Originally Posted by dMaus14 View Post
    Up until the end of the season who really values late inning defensive replacements until September and the playoffs? Not a lot of teams. Valuing a late inning defensive replacement is like running your offense around the sacrifice bunt. There's no real need for it until playoff time.
    If they want someone to bunt i think they need to bring back Hopper. If nothing else let him teach Stubbs to bunt.

  13. #27
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    Re: One more move?

    Quote Originally Posted by alett12 View Post
    Tell me. When Keppinger was a Red and starting at short, Did you havea any problem with his defense? I know i didn't and personally if Janish could hit .260 i would say start him but he can't and i'm not sure with the way the game is anymore if you can afford to have someone who doesn't hit .250 starting no matter how good of defense they can play.
    I did, although his first year when he only played a third of the games or so, he was hitting more than well enough to justify him there with Phillips at 2B and Encarnacion on the verge of breaking out at 3B (although we know now how that turned out). When he was the full-time shortstop in '08, not only was he an extremely limited fielder, he couldn't hit. He's been a mostly below-average hitter since then, and nobody even plays him at short anymore. He's a second baseman.

  14. #28
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    Re: One more move?

    Quote Originally Posted by WildcatFan View Post
    I did, although his first year when he only played a third of the games or so, he was hitting more than well enough to justify him there with Phillips at 2B and Encarnacion on the verge of breaking out at 3B (although we know now how that turned out). When he was the full-time shortstop in '08, not only was he an extremely limited fielder, he couldn't hit. He's been a mostly below-average hitter since then, and nobody even plays him at short anymore. He's a second baseman.
    I was impressed with his numbers at the plate the last few years with houston and lasst year with the giants hitting around .298 coming off the bench which is what he would be doing in cinci

  15. #29
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    Re: One more move?

    My point is, he's not a shortstop. We might as well be talking about signing Carlos Guillen or Aaron Miles to play short. They've done it before; they're just not good at it.

  16. #30
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    Re: One more move?

    Quote Originally Posted by WildcatFan View Post
    My point is, he's not a shortstop. We might as well be talking about signing Carlos Guillen or Aaron Miles to play short. They've done it before; they're just not good at it.
    Ok, then how is Theriot any better?


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