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Thread: Should they add starting pitching depth in Louisville?

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    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Should they add starting pitching depth in Louisville?

    Phils signed Piniero for insurance. Should the Reds sign someone and who?
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

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    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Should they add starting pitching depth in Louisville?

    Absolutely. If Jamie Moyer is considering coming out of retirement, I would love to target him. He will absolutely not be rattled by a spot start in the bigs and his last three years in the bigs he was fantastic at limiting walks and was not terrible on the mound. He had an ERA of under 5 each of his past three seasons and would be a good fill-in.

    The other names I have seen mentioned are Jeff Francis and Joe Saunders. These guys again are not great, but should provide the Reds a better chance of winning a game than a Chad Reineke or Sean Gallagher. I would like to sign two of these guys so we could have a AAA rotation of

    Moyer/Francis/Saunders
    Gallagher
    Moyer/Francis/Saunders
    Chapman
    Reineke

    I would actually like Chapman to come up the least of all of those alternatives so the Reds can "coddle" him through his development. Plus, I believe if he spends 4 months in AAA, the Reds get one more year of control of him. If he has been dominating through July, I think the Reds can consider bringing him up, but until then I would like the ability to bring up a Moyer/Francis/Saunders over a Reineke or Gallagher.

    The problem of targets in this area compared to our left field hole is that it is difficult to know who would except a minor league deal and be the injury fill-in.

    I also don't want LeCure to be the guy who steps in for an injury, because I see him as a vital piece to the bullpen and he won't be sufficiently stretched out for a spot start.

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    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Should they add starting pitching depth in Louisville?

    I wanted to add a little to my post. Now that the Reds are in all-in mode (which I like), I would like to see AAA become the back-up major league team rather than a developmental team. I want the guys in AAA to be more former major leaguers than in the past because these guys are more likely to help in case of injury rather than a guy who isn't ready. For development, the Reds still have 3 other full-season teams to develop players, but we should really build up our major league depth in AAA to help for our all-in.

    That being said, I think Walt is already doing that with having two major league ready catchers in Corky and Dioner at AAA. I wouldn't mind them signing former MLB outfielders for AAA and some infielders too. However, the place they are most important is in the rotation. These guys won't be world beaters, but they have a better chance of getting the Reds wins.

    This type of team should be a good thing for Louisville fans because they should be better baseball players and should help rack up Ws in AAA.

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    Re: Should they add starting pitching depth in Louisville?

    They really have eight pitchers right now who, in theory, could start in Louisville next year:

    Chapman
    Gallagher
    Reinke
    Atilano
    Carroll
    Tanner
    Hynick
    McCulloch

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    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Should they add starting pitching depth in Louisville?

    Quote Originally Posted by cinreds21 View Post
    They really have eight pitchers right now who, in theory, could start in Louisville next year:

    Chapman
    Gallagher
    Reinke
    Atilano
    Carroll
    Tanner
    Hynick
    McCulloch
    Yes, there are 8 pitchers who could pitch in Louisville, but I really don't want any of them, other than Chapman late in the year, to pitch in Cincinnati. If the Reds can get any of Saunders, Francis or Moyer, I think they should sign them.

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    Re: Should they add starting pitching depth in Louisville?

    The Reds absolutely must add a AAA pitcher with major league experience. Or two.

    They already added a catcher, Navarro, which was also necessary.

    I'd also expect to see the Reds add at least one outfielder with major league experience. The outfield is thin. Todd Frazier as the insurance backup is only one guy.

    But I think most important of all is starting pitching to be available in Louisville in case of injury.

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    Re: Should they add starting pitching depth in Louisville?

    If the Reds can get any of Saunders, Francis or Moyer, I think they should sign them.
    There is no way Joe Saunders or Jeff Francis will sign with a team that does not have openings in the rotation.

    They might get a guy like Zach Duke, however.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Two-Time Batting Champ Edd Roush's Avatar
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    Re: Should they add starting pitching depth in Louisville?

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    There is no way Joe Saunders or Jeff Francis will sign with a team that does not have openings in the rotation.

    They might get a guy like Zach Duke, however.
    See I can't possibly disagree because I have no idea if they would or would not sign a minor league deal with an invite to Spring Training. I would be fine with Zach Duke, too. I just don't want any of these AAA pitchers to be making a spot start during a pennant race.

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    Re: Should they add starting pitching depth in Louisville?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I'd also expect to see the Reds add at least one outfielder with major league experience. The outfield is thin. Todd Frazier as the insurance backup is only one guy.
    Heisey, Stubbs and even Bruce could cover all three slots.
    With Ludwick able to cover right, that means the "mystery outfielder" only needs to cover left. Frazier and Juan E. should be able to handle that.

    I wouldn't feel really good about leaving Bruce in center for 100 games, but the chances of both Heisey and Stubbs going down for the same extended period of time has to be small.
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    Re: Should they add starting pitching depth in Louisville?

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    Heisey, Stubbs and even Bruce could cover all three slots.
    With Ludwick able to cover right, that means the "mystery outfielder" only needs to cover left. Frazier and Juan E. should be able to handle that.

    I wouldn't feel really good about leaving Bruce in center for 100 games, but the chances of both Heisey and Stubbs going down for the same extended period of time has to be small.
    I agree that adding another starting outfielder is less pressing than improving starting pitching depth, but I also want an outfielder with major league experience (Hermida?) to come up and fill in on the bench if one of the outfielders go on the DL. Like I said earlier, I want Louisville to be a back-up team for the Reds so I would not mind multiple AAAA types all across the team for depth when the Reds do suffer injuries.

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    Re: Should they add starting pitching depth in Louisville?

    Francis or Duke sounds good to me.
    Go BLUE!!!

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    Re: Should they add starting pitching depth in Louisville?

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    Heisey, Stubbs and even Bruce could cover all three slots.
    With Ludwick able to cover right, that means the "mystery outfielder" only needs to cover left. Frazier and Juan E. should be able to handle that.

    I wouldn't feel really good about leaving Bruce in center for 100 games, but the chances of both Heisey and Stubbs going down for the same extended period of time has to be small.
    Reds need outfield depth in case of injury. Francisco is not an outfielder and Frazier only plays left and is a rookie.

    It's a long season. Sappelt could have had this role but was traded.

    Reds need a veteran at AAA who can step up if there is an injury.

    I am comfortable they will add someone.

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    Re: Should they add starting pitching depth in Louisville?

    I'd rather have Francisco for the outfield because he can play 3B (his primary position). And on Rolen's day off, I want power in the lineup, not Cairo (although I think Miguel has done a good job the last 2 years). Also Rolen being a righty and Francisco a lefty makes it the perfect platoon at 3B. And at this point in their careers, Francisco has the most power obviously.

    And a team doesn't typically use all 5 outfielders that much. The 5th outfielder is typically just a pinch hitter off the bench.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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    Re: Should they add starting pitching depth in Louisville?

    With Phipps already on the 40-man roster, I don't think there's much of a call for a AAA OF. Rhinehart and Dorn are both offensive guys who could help the big club at some time this season. Both are likely to start in AAA. Michael Griffin can play some OF, as well as the infield. He's also an option for a short stay. Cody Puckett or Felix Perez could also play limited innings as a fifth OF.

    Remember, this isn't a fourth OF (Heisey) or even a fifth (Frazier) or sixth (Francisco)-- it's the seventh option. And they likely won't play much if at all.

    Cincinnati could save a million or two by not looking for a minor league insurance policy. (Of course, if Manny is willing to try AAA for 50 games to see what's left in the tank, I'd do it. But that's because of his massive upside. 900 OPS bats don't grow on trees and he could very well provide that.)

    As to the pitching, yeah, they need at least one more starter. I'd probably look to sign Zach Duke. But he'd probably not be all that interested in Louisville when there are other options (like pitching for a team with no depth or starters that might suck mightily, like Baltimore or Kansas City).
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    Re: Should they add starting pitching depth in Louisville?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    With Phipps already on the 40-man roster, I don't think there's much of a call for a AAA OF. Rhinehart and Dorn are both offensive guys who could help the big club at some time this season. Both are likely to start in AAA. Michael Griffin can play some OF, as well as the infield. He's also an option for a short stay. Cody Puckett or Felix Perez could also play limited innings as a fifth OF.

    Remember, this isn't a fourth OF (Heisey) or even a fifth (Frazier) or sixth (Francisco)-- it's the seventh option. And they likely won't play much if at all.

    Cincinnati could save a million or two by not looking for a minor league insurance policy. (Of course, if Manny is willing to try AAA for 50 games to see what's left in the tank, I'd do it. But that's because of his massive upside. 900 OPS bats don't grow on trees and he could very well provide that.)

    As to the pitching, yeah, they need at least one more starter. I'd probably look to sign Zach Duke. But he'd probably not be all that interested in Louisville when there are other options (like pitching for a team with no depth or starters that might suck mightily, like Baltimore or Kansas City).
    We will have to disagree on this one. I see four outfielders on the roster with Frazier in waiting at AAA. Call Frazier the fifth outfielder. Francisco is an emergency OF only.

    A contender doesn't rely on Phipps or Rhinehart or Dorn in case of injuries.

    I am talking about low cost players who will agree to a spring training invite and a AAA job.

    I expect the Reds to add more, pitchers and outfielders mainly.
    Last edited by Kc61; 01-17-2012 at 06:32 PM.


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