Indiana Basketball

[Hoosier Red]

I hate the zone in general, think its a lazy defense and would only play it if my personnel left me no option to play man D. So few programs still even play zone other than to switch things up. But the Syracuse zone is different. And it was smothering last night. Having watched my team fall with a bad matchup come tourney time, I felt really bad for the Hoosiers last night.

Great season guys, hate to see it end that way.

The high school team I broadcast plays a system very similar to this zone defense. This year they were very successful and I saw a number of opponents look just like IU, completely unsure and hesitant when throwing passes. There were nights when it looked like it was a major accomplishment for a team to put up a terrible shot because that means they hadn't turned it over. Seeing IU with more turnovers than FGA for most of the first half made me think of Mt. Vernon.

[Razor Shines]

*crickets*

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Oh you're so very clever and original. You should submit a screen play based on that post.

[WVRed]

Oh you're so very clever and original. You should submit a screen play based on that post.

Nothing trolling, just making reference to the activity (or lack thereof) up to the following posts. There was no discussion during and immediately following the game thread.

With that being said though something I have kinda thought about after last night's loss, has Crean taken Indiana as far as he can possibly take them? It's a fair question IMO. When it comes to expectations, Indiana is on the same level as Kentucky, and even though IU had a lot to rebuild from after Kelvin Sampson, I can't help but think IU fans are disappointed in not taking a major step forward with this team. With Hulls and Watford graduating, and Zeller and Oladipo likely headed to the draft, its going to be a rebuilding year for IU, although they should still be a top team in the B1G.

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[RiverRat13]

With that being said though something I have kinda thought about after last night's loss, has Crean taken Indiana as far as he can possibly take them? It's a fair question IMO. When it comes to expectations, Indiana is on the same level as Kentucky, and even though IU had a lot to rebuild from after Kelvin Sampson, I can't help but think IU fans are disappointed in not taking a major step forward with this team. With Hulls and Watford graduating, and Zeller and Oladipo likely headed to the draft, its going to be a rebuilding year for IU, although they should still be a top team in the B1G.

Off the top of my head I can think of Dean Smith ('84), Roy Williams ('98), Bill Self (2010) and Thad Matta (2011) as having the tourny favorite and not make it past the Sweet 16. It happens.

[Revering4Blue]

With that being said though something I have kinda thought about after last night's loss, has Crean taken Indiana as far as he can possibly take them?

Too early to ask this question, IMO. Despite coaching talent -laden teams year after year, it took Dean Smith and Roy Williams years to win their first banners. Yes, it was a golden opportunity to win it all in a season with no team head - and - shoulders above everyone else, like U.K last year. But it seems ridiculous to assume that this was Crean and Indiana's last chance to win it, no matter how well other Schools recruit.

If Crean continues to do what no Indiana Coach has done in awhile - continue to recruit actual talent - they'll have a reasonable shot to win it all in a "survive and advance" system where the best team doesn't always win it all.

As for the expectations, most of them were based on the Freshman Class making a large impact, which we all know, for various reasons, didn't happen. As a result, a perceived strength - the bench - turned out to be a weakness.

As for my expectations, throwing out what Razor Shines referred to as the "bed pan" years at I.U, I'll take where the I.U program is now over getting blown out in the First Round by "powerhouses" like Boston College, Colorado, and Pepperdine, when I.U was clearly the much more talented team. Those years were a heck of a lot more frustrating to me than last night's loss to a respected program coached by a legend.

[redsfanmia]

As for my expectations, throwing out what Razor Shines referred to as the "bed pan" years at I.U, I'll take where the I.U program is now over getting blown out in the First Round by "powerhouses" like Boston College, Colorado, and Pepperdine, when I.U was clearly the much more talented team. Those years were a heck of a lot more frustrating to me than last night's loss to a respected program coached by a legend.

Those teams played like they just wanted the season to end and honestly were not that talented.

[Assembly Hall]

Those teams played like they just wanted the season to end and honestly were not that talented.

LMAO!!!!!! Well fill us in there "Einstein". The team that got beat by Pepperdine was pretty dang good. A.J. Guyton could play for me any day of the week, Kirk Haston was solid, and Dane Fife could play some "D". Not talented?

[Assembly Hall]

*crickets*

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Yeah, whatever man. Btw how was the NIT?

[5TimeWSChamps]

Yeah, whatever man. Btw how was the NIT?

Last 4 years: (Pick which team you would take)

Elite 8, Final Four, National Title, NIT

No Postseason, No Postseason, S16 (With rings), S16 (TBD)

[redsfanmia]

LMAO!!!!!! Well fill us in there "Einstein". The team that got beat by Pepperdine was pretty dang good. A.J. Guyton could play for me any day of the week, Kirk Haston was solid, and Dane Fife could play some "D". Not talented?

If they were so talented why did they get smacked in the tournament by powerhouse Pepperdine?

[redsfanmia]

Yeah, whatever man. Btw how was the NIT?

Been an Indiana fan since 1981, don't be that fan, Indiana fan should be better than that.

[Revering4Blue]

If they were so talented why did they get smacked in the tournament by powerhouse Pepperdine?

While I agree with AH that the latter Knight coached teams mentioned were significantly more talented than the teams that blew them out in the NCAAs - some of them arguably as talented as the 2002 NC runner up team - I believe that you hit the nail on the head about the aforementioned teams playing as if they couldn't wait for the season to end; a sign that Knight's methods were no longer working with highly-touted recruits for whatever reason.

Translation: Top - flight talent was, and still is, a necessity at a school such as I.U and the days of getting it done (read: National Championships) with a group of overachievers willing to buy into a certain rigid system - like Knight's - were/are over.

Also, top -flight, or even diamond - in -the -rough recruits like Oladipo, are not going to sign with a School just because of the uniform.

If that were the case, blue-chippers would have flocked to UK during the Tubby Smith and Billy Clyde years. They want to play for Calipari, first and foremost.

Highly touted players want to play for Crean that wouldn't have given the Mike Davis led program a passing glance.

You're not going to come close to winning a National championship at a school like IU without the ability to recruit top-flight talent. If nothing else, Crean has proven he can recruit and develop players. Replacing Crean with an excellent X and O coach, who may well not run a desirable system for top-flight recruits and / or hasn't shown the ability to recruit top -flight talent Nationwide is a considerable risk, IMO. And coaches who can do both don't grow on trees and are settled into great situations of their own.

Just something to think about.

[Assembly Hall]

If they were so talented why did they get smacked in the tournament by powerhouse Pepperdine?

Haston breaking his hand in the early minutes of it?

[Assembly Hall]

Been an Indiana fan since 1981, don't be that fan, Indiana fan should be better than that.

I know what you are saying and appreciate it........however the post **crickets** didn't sit well with me.

[Assembly Hall]

While I agree with AH that the latter Knight coached teams mentioned were significantly more talented than the teams that blew them out in the NCAAs - some of them arguably as talented as the 2002 NC runner up team - I believe that you hit the nail on the head about the aforementioned teams playing as if they couldn't wait for the season to end; a sign that Knight's methods were no longer working with highly-touted recruits for whatever reason.

Translation: Top - flight talent was, and still is, a necessity at a school such as I.U and the days of getting it done (read: National Championships) with a group of overachievers willing to buy into a certain rigid system - like Knight's - were/are over.

Also, top -flight, or even diamond - in -the -rough recruits like Oladipo, are not going to sign with a School just because of the uniform.

If that were the case, blue-chippers would have flocked to UK during the Tubby Smith and Billy Clyde years. They want to play for Calipari, first and foremost.

Highly touted players want to play for Crean that wouldn't have given the Mike Davis led program a passing glance.

You're not going to come close to winning a National championship at a school like IU without the ability to recruit top-flight talent. If nothing else, Crean has proven he can recruit and develop players. Replacing Crean with an excellent X and O coach, who may well not run a desirable system for top-flight recruits and / or hasn't shown the ability to recruit top -flight talent Nationwide is a considerable risk, IMO. And coaches who can do both don't grow on trees and are settled into great situations of their own.

Just something to think about.

The Pepperdine game was an anomaly. However, the ones before that were not. Knight got the talent, it just never came to fruition for the Hoosiers. In the "end" days he did better with the less heralded players such as Guyton and Haston while fellas like Collier and Recker went by the wayside.

Regardless, IU just got beat by a better team on that day.