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Thread: Indiana Basketball

  1. #601
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by 5TimeWSChamps View Post
    Last 4 years: (Pick which team you would take)

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    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

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  3. #602
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    With that being said though something I have kinda thought about after last night's loss, has Crean taken Indiana as far as he can possibly take them? It's a fair question IMO. When it comes to expectations, Indiana is on the same level as Kentucky, and even though IU had a lot to rebuild from after Kelvin Sampson, I can't help but think IU fans are disappointed in not taking a major step forward with this team. With Hulls and Watford graduating, and Zeller and Oladipo likely headed to the draft, its going to be a rebuilding year for IU, although they should still be a top team in the B1G.
    I don't think that loss was a huge surprise to IU fans. The issues that people had recognized all season showed up in this game. IU was a great team but didn't really have a guy they could go to when they really needed a score. They were soft all season and struggled against physical teams. While they were very good, they had limitations, and Syracuse was able to capitalize on those.

    Crean also has his shortcomings. I don't have as big an issue with his Xs and Os as some do. I think his gameplan for Syracuse was correct. They needed to get the ball to the high post to draw in the zone to kick it out to the wings or to a slasher on the baseline. However, Zeller seemed scared to look at the hoop when he got the ball there, so he wasn't forcing any movement in the zone. Then, when he actually did try to make a play, he was completely soft and ineffective and required no help. If you can't attack the middle of the zone with your best player, you aren't going to beat Syracuse. I think Crean's primary shortcoming is in his substitution patterns. It's great to have a deep bench, but at some point you need to tighten up the rotation and stick with your stars. But Crean never did that, and it cost them in their losses this year.

    That said, Indiana will still be very good next year. I would be shocked if Oladipo is back, but I could potentially see Zeller back next year. If he makes a commitment to working on his low post game, developing right and left handed jump hooks, bulking up and going stronger to the hoop, and developing a mid range shot, he could really up his draft stock. It's a risk because he could potentially fall even farther, but it might be worth it. Next year they'll have Yogi and Sheehey for sure in the starting lineup. Hollowell will probably take Watford's spot. Also, while they've got nothing on Kentucky, their recruiting class is very good, and they've got a few guys that should start/contribute from day 1. I expect them to still be a top 15 team next year.

  4. #603
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillsdale87 View Post
    That said, Indiana will still be very good next year. I would be shocked if Oladipo is back, but I could potentially see Zeller back next year. If he makes a commitment to working on his low post game, developing right and left handed jump hooks, bulking up and going stronger to the hoop, and developing a mid range shot, he could really up his draft stock. It's a risk because he could potentially fall even farther, but it might be worth it. Next year they'll have Yogi and Sheehey for sure in the starting lineup. Hollowell will probably take Watford's spot. Also, while they've got nothing on Kentucky, their recruiting class is very good, and they've got a few guys that should start/contribute from day 1. I expect them to still be a top 15 team next year.
    The interesting thing about Zeller is that he apparently has a good mid range(and beyond) jump shot. But he's never really felt comfortable using it because early in the season, there was ALWAYS someone hot so it was always a lower percentage shot than the offense could generate otherwise , and by the time it got into the meat of the schedule he probably didn't really feel as comfortable with it. If he comes back, the offense is going to be a lot more dependent on him which is both good and bad.

    That said, he's a fool to come back. Forget all the people saying he's not ready. He's ready to be a top 15-top 20 pick. Last year he would have been a top 10 pick. Even if he "gets better" he might still slide in the draft if he comes back next year.
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    The interesting thing about Zeller is that he apparently has a good mid range(and beyond) jump shot. But he's never really felt comfortable using it because early in the season, there was ALWAYS someone hot so it was always a lower percentage shot than the offense could generate otherwise , and by the time it got into the meat of the schedule he probably didn't really feel as comfortable with it. If he comes back, the offense is going to be a lot more dependent on him which is both good and bad.

    That said, he's a fool to come back. Forget all the people saying he's not ready. He's ready to be a top 15-top 20 pick. Last year he would have been a top 10 pick. Even if he "gets better" he might still slide in the draft if he comes back next year.
    Apparently at the first practice of the season, which was open to the public, he was draining three pointers in shoot around. He needs to work on getting his shot off his shoulder though. Both on his jump shot and in the lane his release is far too low. He's definitely one of the most athletic and graceful big men in the game, so if he forced people to guard him 15 feet from the hoop, he would be unstoppable.

    I agree that he should go because there's a risk of falling more. However, his stock was not going to be any higher than it was after last year. After this year, he could theoretically improve his stock by a fair bit. Probably just the musings of a delusional fan, but I think he'll at least strongly consider coming back.

  6. #605
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    I wouldn't completely write off him coming back and I agree with most of what you said. Though one reason I don't think his NBA stock has suffered as much as people think is that I don't he's going to play center.

    If you asked me to compare him to any current player in the NBA(Upside) it would be Tim Duncan. And while Duncan is theoretically a center, he plays much more like a power forward than a true center.
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    I wouldn't completely write off him coming back and I agree with most of what you said. Though one reason I don't think his NBA stock has suffered as much as people think is that I don't he's going to play center.

    If you asked me to compare him to any current player in the NBA(Upside) it would be Tim Duncan. And while Duncan is theoretically a center, he plays much more like a power forward than a true center.
    I think his future is as a PF too (he would get eaten alive by somebody like Howard or Bynum), but he currently plays like a center. Most offensive power forwards have a reliable jump shot. Currently he's Pau Gasol lite. Very lite.

  8. #607
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    Taken from an ESPN Chad Ford chat from 3/26 - before the IU/Syracuse debacle.

    Ray (Indiana)


    Any chance Oladipo or Zeller stay in Bloomington for next year?
    Chad Ford
    (1:36 PM)


    Think Oladipo is gone for sure. He's going to be a Top 5-6 pick. Zeller might be a bigger question mark. Some scouts love him, many don't. His stock is a bit more volatile. Not sure where he lands and whether he'd be better off returning for a year to add strength and a jump shot to his game.
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pťrignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

  9. #608
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    Not a surprise in the least but IU announced Victor Oladipo will forego his final season of eligibility and go to the NBA Draft. Godspeed Victor!

    Not sure what to make of Cody not announcing yet, perhaps getting some negative feedback?
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  10. #609
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    A problem I noticed with zeller is that he hunches over when he goes to the rim which ends up making him considerably smaller than he actually is. He needs to stay more upright. NBA bigs will make those Syracuse bigs seem like a fond memory if he doesn't get that corrected.
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    Zeller is announcing tomorrow afternoon. I'd love it if he stays, but I doubt it. WMR is right. He needs to learn to make better use of his height. No excuse for all those blocked shots against a smaller Syracuse front line. His release is way too low, especially when he goes left.

  13. #611
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    A problem I noticed with zeller is that he hunches over when he goes to the rim which ends up making him considerably smaller than he actually is. He needs to stay more upright. NBA bigs will make those Syracuse bigs seem like a fond memory if he doesn't get that corrected.
    Yeah, I'm who ever drafts him will fix that. He really should go this year though. I mean if he waits there may be 8 or 9 dudes just from UK drafted in front of him next year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    A problem I noticed with zeller is that he hunches over when he goes to the rim which ends up making him considerably smaller than he actually is. He needs to stay more upright. NBA bigs will make those Syracuse bigs seem like a fond memory if he doesn't get that corrected.
    That drives me insane when he does that.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

  15. #613
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    A problem I noticed with zeller is that he hunches over when he goes to the rim which ends up making him considerably smaller than he actually is. He needs to stay more upright. NBA bigs will make those Syracuse bigs seem like a fond memory if he doesn't get that corrected.
    Especially this season, Zeller became more of a finesse player. He was the guy who took his man away from the basket to beat him off the dribble. He went low to gain leverage and was pretty good at blowing buy guys. Crean's style was to get out and run and beat the team down the court something Zeller was very good at. I think that plays a reason why he plays "smaller" especially at the rim.

    I didn't think Zeller was the type of player who liked a whole lot of contact. The key to beating IU this season was to turn the game into a physical game. I think Zeller needs to get stronger physically and stronger around the rim. The thing is I don't know if Crean's style is conducive to that.

  16. #614
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    Herald Times just posted that Zeller is declaring for the draft today.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.

  17. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunDeck View Post
    Herald Times just posted that Zeller is declaring for the draft today.
    Not sure if that's the best idea for him.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.


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