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Thread: Indiana Basketball

  1. #691
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    What does Crean need to accomplish the next 2-3 seasons to prove he deserves to remain IU's coach?

    As a rival fan, I'm pretty happy with Crean at Indiana. Sort of how other fans felt during the latter Tubby and BCG eras.
    A deep tourney run or two would be nice. It's been a long time since Indiana has even been past the round of 16. Just getting to the Elite 8 would buy him some more time in my eyes.
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  3. #692
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    I don't really mind Crean's personality...BUT...he was badly miscoached last year against Boeheim. Indiana should have gone to the final 4 at a minimum. Tom Crean has appeared to be oblivious to Zone defense, which is fine in the Big 10...but not fine when you start to play Big East teams or other worthy tournament teams.

    I don't think Indiana fans care so long as Crean's teams win the games they are supposed to win. Last year, losing that Butler game and that Wisconsin game at home was bad. Some of the road losses were bad too, but they lost games that they shouldn't have last year.

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  5. #693
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    Want me to draw up a list?
    John Calipari is an excellent coach and seems like a nice guy.


    Boom, kill 'em with kindness. Guys, we're going with "kill 'em with kindness" until further notice.

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  7. #694
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1 View Post
    I don't really mind Crean's personality...BUT...he was badly miscoached last year against Boeheim. Indiana should have gone to the final 4 at a minimum. Tom Crean has appeared to be oblivious to Zone defense, which is fine in the Big 10...but not fine when you start to play Big East teams or other worthy tournament teams.

    I don't think Indiana fans care so long as Crean's teams win the games they are supposed to win. Last year, losing that Butler game and that Wisconsin game at home was bad. Some of the road losses were bad too, but they lost games that they shouldn't have last year.
    Admittedly, I'm a coachpologist* at heart. I always find it interesting that Crean is seen as lacking for games like Butler and Wisconsin, but doesn't get credit for a superb coaching job beating Michigan, Michigan State, and THE Ohio State University on the road.

    Obviously, no one was happy with how the season ended, but it shouldn't take away from the fact they won what was far and away the toughest league in the nation.

    That was a talented team that had big flaws, just like every talented team last year. There's a reason the #1 ranking passed hands roughly every week.

    Unfortunately Syracuse's strengths were able to exploit those flaws.

    It's all passed now, IU has looked pretty much as advertised this year, but I think depending on the progress of Troy Williams/Jeremy Hollowell and other role players, the team will be in the mix for the B1G title.

    *Seriously between Dusty and Crean, embattled coaches ought to pay me to defend them.
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  8. #695
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Admittedly, I'm a coachpologist* at heart. I always find it interesting that Crean is seen as lacking for games like Butler and Wisconsin, but doesn't get credit for a superb coaching job beating Michigan, Michigan State, and THE Ohio State University on the road.

    Obviously, no one was happy with how the season ended, but it shouldn't take away from the fact they won what was far and away the toughest league in the nation.

    That was a talented team that had big flaws, just like every talented team last year. There's a reason the #1 ranking passed hands roughly every week.

    Unfortunately Syracuse's strengths were able to exploit those flaws.

    It's all passed now, IU has looked pretty much as advertised this year, but I think depending on the progress of Troy Williams/Jeremy Hollowell and other role players, the team will be in the mix for the B1G title.

    *Seriously between Dusty and Crean, embattled coaches ought to pay me to defend them.
    The expectations were high. They played very good ball the year before in the tournament with a younger team. Unfortunately, they went up against UK in the Sweet 16.

    I understand the conundrum you're speaking of...but even if we forget about the games during the regular season, losing in the sweet 16 was a colossal disappointment IMO. I do like Crean though. He's been great for the program, but he had a chance last year I think to cement his place in the program by making it at least to the final 4 (which I still think IU should have) and fell short. I don't put that on him 100% since he's not shooting baskets, but I don't think he's great when it comes to defensive adjustments on either side of the ball. And really, when you think about the Syracuse game, Crean should've had a better game plan. He's gone up against Boeheim previously and has never won.

    Yes, I'm still a little bitter about how last season ended, even if it is over.

  9. #696
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    Y U C K. Bad loss to ND today. Vonleh with a pretty limited effort today.
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  10. #697
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Y U C K. Bad loss to ND today. Vonleh with a pretty limited effort today.
    The good news: Finally, a break-out game for Will Sheehey.

    Coming off of a sub-par performance in a home loss to North Dakota State, it was the perfect storm for the Irish in many ways. This, IMO, could well be Brey's best, at least from the standpoint of depth, particularly big men. It's kind of telling that Zach Auguste, who didn't play a minute against ND State due to matchups, performed well today.

    If they can't get the ball into Vonleh and he can't score/ get fouled, I'm afraid that the Hoosiers are going to struggle against teams with depth in the big man department if forced into a half-court game; with perimeter threats in short supply --Johnson and Blackman will arrive next year to help in that department.

    IMO, last year's UNC team is a good comparison for this team, and that's not a bad thing considering all of the new faces. As an aside, the B1G doesn't appear to be as strong at the top as last year and that may bode well for this IU team, which is capable of causing problems of their own with all of their length and athleticism, which was in relative short supply last year, collectively.
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pérignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

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  12. #698
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    So now Luke Fischer's transferring. That's a shame as he was the guy who I thought would be an important piece to continually improve through the years.

    Not sure what the deal was or if it was just an early version of spring Creaning, but not a good development at ALL.

    Season could really go from "meh" to "bleh" pretty quickly. Need a good performance at Illinois tomorrow.
    When people say that I don’t know what I’m talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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  13. #699
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    With Vonleh in foul trouble for much of the game, we certainly could have used Fischer today. Besides Vonleh's foul trouble, if you would have told me before the game that Hollowell would deliver a zero on the scoreboard and that Sheehey would pull a second half disappearing act, and IU would still have a chance to pull it out at the end of regulation, I'd have thought that you were crazy.

    Still a disappointing loss, and a blown opportunity to steal a conference game on the road, though.
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pérignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

  14. #700
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    IU needs to dump Crean. I hope they keep him as long as possible, but he has maxed out his potential at IU.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by WMR View Post
    IU needs to dump Crean. I hope they keep him as long as possible, but he has maxed out his potential at IU.
    That's just absurd.

    Crean took a program in tatters and went 56-16 over the past two years. They underachieved in the tournament last year and the prospects for the current season don't look too bright, but to suggest that Crean isn't doing a good job is silly.

    He recruits and develops players well. I think he'll have IU at the top of the Big Ten for years to come.

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  17. #702
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by BillDoran View Post
    That's just absurd.

    Crean took a program in tatters and went 56-16 over the past two years. They underachieved in the tournament last year and the prospects for the current season don't look too bright, but to suggest that Crean isn't doing a good job is silly.

    He recruits and develops players well. I think he'll have IU at the top of the Big Ten for years to come.
    You may be right, I just think IU could do better.

    Losing this Fischer kid was bad.

    A buddy of mine is an IU fan and Crean's sub patterns are driving him nuts. You should have a rotation by now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Calipari is not, nor has he ever been accused or "caught", cheating. He himself turned in one of his players (Camby) for dealing with an agent to get one Final Four overturned. The other is all on the NCAA and Rose. (IF Rose cheated.)
    "Cheering for Kentucky is like watching Star Wars and hoping Darth Vader chokes an ewok"


  18. #703
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    But he has an equivalent of Ohio State football in his hands, so he had a boatload of tradition to overcome a program "in tatters." I'm not sure he is a long-term solution for the program, seems a bit mousey and perhaps already peaked. Had the big recruiting class, its cycled through already, onto Phase II. I think Phase I was a piece of cake for that program. Phase II is off to a shaky start.
    Last edited by traderumor; 01-01-2014 at 12:49 PM.
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  19. #704
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    You may be right, I just think IU could do better.

    Losing this Fischer kid was bad.

    A buddy of mine is an IU fan and Crean's sub patterns are driving him nuts. You should have a rotation by now.
    But he has an equivalent of Ohio State football in his hands, so he had a boatload of tradition to overcome a program "in tatters." I'm not sure he is a long-term solution for the program, seems a bit mousey and perhaps already peaked. Had the big recruiting class, its cycled through already, onto Phase II. I think Phase I was a piece of cake for that program. Phase II is off to a shaky start.
    Fair takes (to a certain extent) on the situation.

    That stated, IMO, perspective on certain issues is, no offense, lacking here by both fans and non-fans of the program.

    Players/personnel -- Vonleh has been as good as advertised and has, as of now, only scratched the surface in regards to potential. Troy Williams, OTOH, has, by all accounts, been slow to develop and the constant comparisons to Oladipo, are, in some ways, unfair. But remember, Oladipo didn't become a star overnight.

    Yes, Fischer is a loss, as he would have allowed Vonleh to spend more time at the 4 position, and may result in IU being relegated to the NIT. Fischer was averaging only 10 minutes, 3 points and 2 rebounds per game, so it's not as if his loss is a program altering, make-or-break loss. Crean can sign a JC Center for next season that can, at worst, provide those numbers.

    As for the IU can do better than Crean spiel, that may or may not be true.

    IU's not canning Crean within the next two years, but I'll play along for the sake of argument. I'd like to hear actual names who would realistically take the job and do better. Who would you target? And we can forget about the Brad Stevens fantasy; to believe that he'd leave one of the most storied pro franchises for IU is tantamount to believing in the tooth fairy.
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pérignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

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  21. #705
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    Re: Indiana 2011-2012 and 2012-2013 Basketball

    A lot of good points in previous post. Not to defend Crean but IMO, whether or not IU could hire a better coach. IMO any decent coach with even a lick of sense would pass on the opportunity when such a sudden improvement is met with a "yeah thanks but we can do better." I dont disagree with those who feel like the program will stagnate over the next couple of years. It very well could. But looking to replace a coach out offer of what might happen will lead to a substandard crop of coaches will look to take over.
    When people say that I don’t know what I’m talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

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