Turn Off Ads?
Page 14 of 68 FirstFirst ... 41011121314151617182464 ... LastLast
Results 196 to 210 of 1012

Thread: Indiana Basketball

  1. #196
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    7,202

    Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

    That's true AH, however part of what makes fans expectations swing back and forth are how a team performs in a given year.

    I think last year's team underperformed relative to the talent level. I think this year's team probably overperformed, if not to the talent level, at least to everyone's expectations.

    That's why I try not to set expectations of any particular round in the tournament beyond the sweet 16. IMO the best way to measure greatness is more through consistency. How many B1G Ten championships and Sweet 16's. Once you get to that point, the talent difference is likely much smaller and it can depend on matchups and luck and a number of other factors that to pin expectations on any one year is likely to only lead to disappointment.

    I'm admittedly a lower bar to clear, but it leaves room for the team to exceed my expectation level.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #197
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    7,202

    Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

    Bah DP
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  4. #198
    We are back! Assembly Hall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Warsaw, IN
    Posts
    754

    Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

    I cant disagree with alot of what you said there Hoosier Red. I too would say last years team under-achieved and this years team over-achieved only on expectation levels.

    I too would say that sweet sixteens are a measuring stick, as well as B1G regular season or tournament championships.

    I dont know how old you are Hoosier Red, but let me ask you these questions.

    What were IU fans expectations in 76?

    What were IU fans expectations in 81?

    What were IU fans expectations in 93?

    The fact of the matter is that barring defections and early entries IU will return all 5 starters back from a pretty successful team. If and I say if all 5 starters return it would be only natural to expect a step above what they did this year.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  5. #199
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    7,202

    Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    I cant disagree with alot of what you said there Hoosier Red. I too would say last years team under-achieved and this years team over-achieved only on expectation levels.

    I too would say that sweet sixteens are a measuring stick, as well as B1G regular season or tournament championships.

    I dont know how old you are Hoosier Red, but let me ask you these questions.

    What were IU fans expectations in 76?

    What were IU fans expectations in 81?

    What were IU fans expectations in 93?

    The fact of the matter is that barring defections and early entries IU will return all 5 starters back from a pretty successful team. If and I say if all 5 starters return it would be only natural to expect a step above what they did this year.
    I'm not quite old enough to rememeber '76 or '81. I remember the '87 Natl Championship where we were all cheering for IU because they went through Cincinnati. The first game I saw at THE Assembly Hall I was cheering for the Cincinnati Bearcats in 1993. I remember thinking at the time as I watched from the balcony, "Wow, they sure give opposing fans some terrible seats." Little did I know that those terrible seats were only available because it was Christmas break and I'd be sitting in those seats 4 years later. My point to this is that because I've pretty much only known "IU Basketball: The mediocre years" I'm probably not the person to ask.

    And despite my protests for restraint, in my heart of hearts I'd be disappointed if they don't go further next year then this year. But my overall point is that exactly because it's natural to expect more from next year's team than this year's team, we should always keep the long view in mind. In the tournament especially, upsets happen, even if IU's better next year than this year, they may not necessarily go further. But over the course of 5-10 years, if you are consistently putting yourself in position, that will eventually even out.

    I remember last spring Joe Morgan said something I found really interesting when he was talking about the Reds. He said something along the lines of how difficult it was for a young team to understand they weren't starting at 90 wins(the total from 2010.) They were starting at 0. IU's team may start next season in the top 5, in fact if everyone comes back I'd be surprised if they don't. But they're still 0-0. They haven't defeated the 2012-2013 version of UK, tOSU, tMSU, or Michigan. They haven't even defeated the 2012-2013 version of tPSU.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  6. #200
    We are back! Assembly Hall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Warsaw, IN
    Posts
    754

    Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

    Well I would say last year's Reds team was a disappointment. But comparing major league baseball to men's college basketball is like comparing apples to oranges.

    With that being said, basketball is about who is on the team and what other teams have lost. People prognosticate each and every year about these facts and set their expectations accordingly. And as fans of whatever program, we do the same.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  7. #201
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    7,202

    Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    Well I would say last year's Reds team was a disappointment. But comparing major league baseball to men's college basketball is like comparing apples to oranges.

    With that being said, basketball is about who is on the team and what other teams have lost. People prognosticate each and every year about these facts and set their expectations accordingly. And as fans of whatever program, we do the same.
    I think we're pretty much thinking along the same lines. I expect the team to be really good next year and be a front runner for the B1G Ten crown. I think they'll be a favorite to make it to the Final Four when the tournament begins.

    I guess, it's not so much about holding back on those expectations so much as putting too much weight on them for any one year. In terms of fans expectations, a good number of people wanted to run Crean out of town after the 2011 season, and many of those people are outraged that he wasn't coach of the year because they had such low expectations going in.

    That's where the long view comes in. If they're upset in the sweet 16 of the tournament next year, it will be a disappointment but it wouldn't prove that Crean is incapable of being the guy to guide them to the Final Four any more than a National Championship wouldn't make him the greatest coach on the planet. It's all about the long term and that's not something you can judge over one year or two years disappointments or exceeded expectations.

    Earlier in the season I made the point about Brad Stevens. I think he's an excellent coach. I think Butler is extraordinarily lucky to have found him and I hope he's the coach there forever because he's a fantastic coach. But I would have said that he was a fantastic coach even if Butler had lost to Murray State in 2010 or had they lost to Old Dominion or Pittsburgh last year.

    In order to advance to the Final Four, you of course need to be a good team and play well. But you also need to catch a few breaks along the way. Kentucky was probably more talented then any other team in the tournament this year, but if they don't hit 95% of their free throws against IU, they might have been sent packing.(That's not to say the win was a fluke UK fans, simply pointing out that it took a well above average performance to beat IU.) And let's not fool ourselves, despite the excellent recruiting class, IU's talent level compared to the rest of the nation will not be as overwhelming as Kentucky's is this year.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  8. #202
    We are back! Assembly Hall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Warsaw, IN
    Posts
    754

    Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

    I know exactly what you are saying Hoosier Red. As a life-long IU basketball fan I have had my share of agonizing disappointments with the program due to unexpected developments. I never questioned the coaching.

    I mentioned those years above because in the previous seasons those teams were highly successful.

    IU has won 3 NCs in my lifetime. '76, '81, '87. I would say that Indiana had the talent to win it in '74, '75, '79, '80, '82, '83, '86, '89, '91, '92, and '93. In each of the years I mentioned the cards just didnt fall right due to early entries, injuries, or just plain getting beat on a given day. I never questioned the coaching.

    IU is an elite program. Expectations will be accordingly.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  9. #203
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    3,635

    Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    I know exactly what you are saying Hoosier Red. As a life-long IU basketball fan I have had my share of agonizing disappointments with the program due to unexpected developments. I never questioned the coaching.

    I mentioned those years above because in the previous seasons those teams were highly successful.

    IU has won 3 NCs in my lifetime. '76, '81, '87. I would say that Indiana had the talent to win it in '74, '75, '79, '80, '82, '83, '86, '89, '91, '92, and '93. In each of the years I mentioned the cards just didnt fall right due to early entries, injuries, or just plain getting beat on a given day. I never questioned the coaching.

    IU is an elite program. Expectations will be accordingly.
    IU was set up to win it in 75, 92 and 93 the 86 team was solid but had no chance to win it all. The 89 team over acheived and the 91 team was really young. I think IU was talented enough to win 3-4 more titles under Coach Knight 75,83,92 and 93.
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

  10. #204
    We are back! Assembly Hall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Warsaw, IN
    Posts
    754

    Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfanmia View Post
    IU was set up to win it in 75, 92 and 93 the 86 team was solid but had no chance to win it all. The 89 team over acheived and the 91 team was really young. I think IU was talented enough to win 3-4 more titles under Coach Knight 75,83,92 and 93.
    The '86 team was the same team that won it in '87. The '91 team was the same team in '92 and '93. The '89 team got beat by Seton Hall in the sweet sixteen and Illinois and Michigan made it to the FF that year. The '79-'83 teams were stacked. Knight kicked 2 starters off in '79. Mike Woodson got injured in '80. They won it in '81. Isiah Thomas went pro and Landon Turner got paralyzed before the '82 season.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  11. #205
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    9

    Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

    IU is going to be extremely good next year, no question. If all the starters return they will pull a top 5 preseason rating. IU has the 4th best recruiting class in the nation this next year, so its going to be very exciting to watch all those guys put it together. I have high hopes for a final 4 appearance. Maybe it wont happen, but next years team is going to be a beast to try and beat.

  12. #206
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    indianapolis, IN
    Posts
    3,635

    Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    The '86 team was the same team that won it in '87. The '91 team was the same team in '92 and '93. The '89 team got beat by Seton Hall in the sweet sixteen and Illinois and Michigan made it to the FF that year. The '79-'83 teams were stacked. Knight kicked 2 starters off in '79. Mike Woodson got injured in '80. They won it in '81. Isiah Thomas went pro and Landon Turner got paralyzed before the '82 season.
    The 86 team did not have Dean Garrett and Keith Smart and their starting center was 6'6" Andre Harris, they were a solid but not spectacular team.

    The 89 team overacheived and played 3 guards most of the year and Jay Edwards won like 3-4 games on last second shots.

    The 82 team also lost Ray Tolbert who had a good career in the NBA, they were in rebuilding mode that season.

    The 91 team was lead by a ton of sophomores and Eric Anderson, they were good but not quite ready to win.
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

  13. #207
    All Fired Up Revering4Blue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    NE Indiana
    Posts
    1,515

    Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfanmia View Post
    The 86 team did not have Dean Garrett and Keith Smart and their starting center was 6'6" Andre Harris, they were a solid but not spectacular team.

    The 89 team overacheived and played 3 guards most of the year and Jay Edwards won like 3-4 games on last second shots.

    The 82 team also lost Ray Tolbert who had a good career in the NBA, they were in rebuilding mode that season.

    The 91 team was lead by a ton of sophomores and Eric Anderson, they were good but not quite ready to win.
    Exactly right.

    The 91 team was the same as 92 and 93? Uh, no.

    The 91 team didn't have Alan Henderson, whose unfortunate injury in 93 may well have cost the team at least a Final Four appearance. That team was steamrolling everybody.
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pťrignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

  14. #208
    We are back! Assembly Hall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Warsaw, IN
    Posts
    754

    Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfanmia View Post
    The 86 team did not have Dean Garrett and Keith Smart and their starting center was 6'6" Andre Harris, they were a solid but not spectacular team.

    The 89 team overacheived and played 3 guards most of the year and Jay Edwards won like 3-4 games on last second shots.

    The 82 team also lost Ray Tolbert who had a good career in the NBA, they were in rebuilding mode that season.

    The 91 team was lead by a ton of sophomores and Eric Anderson, they were good but not quite ready to win.
    In '86 they dang near won the B1G. Finished second behind Michigan. I know they didnt have Garrett or Smart. But they did have a young guy by the name of Calloway that was on his game. They were a 3 seed in the tournament.

    The '89 team might have overachieved. But the fact of the matter is, going into the tournament they were a 2 seed.

    The '82 team was set to return 4 starters from the previous year along with their 6th man. Tolbert graduated but the pieces were there to make another run. Isiah went pro and Landon Turner got in an auto accident ending his career.

    The '91 team was tough. Although they were a sophomore laden team along with Eric Anderson and Damon Bailey, they were a Top 5 team. I believe they only lost 4 regular season games, and received a 2 seed in the tourney where they got beat by a 3 seed in Kansas.

    Geez, I love talking about this stuff!!!!!!!!!!
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  15. #209
    We are back! Assembly Hall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Warsaw, IN
    Posts
    754

    Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    Exactly right.

    The 91 team was the same as 92 and 93? Uh, no.

    The 91 team didn't have Alan Henderson, whose unfortunate injury in 93 may well have cost the team at least a Final Four appearance. That team was steamrolling everybody.
    The '91 team didnt have Brian Evans either. LOL

    The '91 team ended the year as the #3 team in the AP poll. Although Henderson's addition was extremely valuable, all the pieces were in place for the '92 team already. The opened that year up as the pre-season #2.

    You are right on Henderson's injury in '93. That one hurt.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  16. #210
    We are back! Assembly Hall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Warsaw, IN
    Posts
    754

    Re: Indiana Basketball 2011-2012 Part II

    Quote Originally Posted by Ownagedood View Post
    IU is going to be extremely good next year, no question. If all the starters return they will pull a top 5 preseason rating. IU has the 4th best recruiting class in the nation this next year, so its going to be very exciting to watch all those guys put it together. I have high hopes for a final 4 appearance. Maybe it wont happen, but next years team is going to be a beast to try and beat.
    I am right there with ya!!!!!!!!!!!
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25