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Thread: Indiana Basketball

  1. #946
    All Fired Up Revering4Blue's Avatar
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    Re: Indiana Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Please don't compare. 1) Bob Knight is probably one of the top 5-10 college coaches of all time. It's quite possible for Crean to not be as good as Knight, yet still be successful. 2) Completely different era. Then even a mediocre team made tourney. Much more difficult now.

    None of that says Crean is the right guy, but if he's not, it will be based on his own merits.
    I'm not so sure that I agree with the bolded point. But other than that, really good points.
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pérignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

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  3. #947
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: Indiana Basketball

    I wonder where IU would be this year if the NBA draft hadn't come calling? Better to compare him to coaches who are thriving in the current environment than Knight. Personally, I think what he did to get the program righted was nothing short of incredible; the guy brought the team back into the top ten, got many ex players from RMK's era to return to campus and re-engaged the fan base. For that, he at least deserves a shot to respond to this season. Will he be able to do it? I don't know, but because of his efforts to rebuild the infrastructure IU can legitimately believe they can attract an elite coach to fill his shoes, a better position than they were in when they hired him.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.

  4. #948
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    Re: Indiana Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    Peter Jurkin to the rescue. Any truth to the rumor that his middle name is "Ben"?
    All I know is Peter "Ben" sittin'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  5. #949
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    Re: Indiana Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    Please don't compare. 1) Bob Knight is probably one of the top 5-10 college coaches of all time. It's quite possible for Crean to not be as good as Knight, yet still be successful. 2) Completely different era. Then even a mediocre team made tourney. Much more difficult now.

    None of that says Crean is the right guy, but if he's not, it will be based on his own merits.

    I am not comparing the coaches, I am comparing the teams on the floor. IU basketball is IU basketball. I could care less about era's. Last time I checked they won a title in '40, another in '53, again in '76, another in '81, and lastly in '87. Heck even Mike Davis took them to a title game. I could care less who is coaching, there is a tradition there that has a measuring stick.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  6. #950
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: Indiana Basketball

    Pardon me, but that sure read like a comparison of coaches .

    I may be overly sensitive and just tired of all the old people here walking around with Texas Tech hats and jackets, but the point is valid, there certainly is an expectation that IU basketball will/should be in the realm of programs that more often than not are in the hunt for a national championship, as they were during the height of Knight's career at IU. While I am somewhat perplexed at the way in which people are suddenly down on Crean, seeming to forget where they were when he started just a few years ago, I understand their feelings; the program is "back" and they just aren't going to give a guy slack if his team doesn't stay there year in and year out, whether it's Crean or anyone else. From the outside looking in, it must seem IU has no claim to elite status, given the 27 year banner drought, but you won't ever convince the fan base of that. Present students may differ, which is why they practically storm the court for turnovers, but these debates have no end. To me, the impatience is equal parts love for IU (what else is there to do in Indiana, really?), unmerited ego and fear of not dominating SOMETHING in the conference.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.

  7. #951
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    Re: Indiana Basketball

    SD, I suppose it did sound like a comparison. My age means that I grew up watching IU basketball and RMK just happened to be the coach. I was just pointing out that IMO that IU basketball was never down for long in his tenure. They were always relevant. Bobby took some hits as well, due to injuries more so than the NBA draft. Although the draft did cost the Hoosiers in his day as well. George McGinnis and Isaiah Thomas.

    I am just a frustrated fan.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  8. #952
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Indiana Basketball

    Seems to me that Crean recruits different players than Knight did. The vast majority of Knight's players were not players who would bolt for the NBA after a year or so. Knight's initial success also came in an era where there was no shot clock, no 3 point shot and players stayed 4 years. He also had success with the shot clock and the 3 point shot and that's to his credit but there has been a drought since 87. Crean's teams have not won any titles but they have been very successful over the past few years. Maybe if he could keep his players for 4 years like Knight did they would win a title or two.
    The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day.

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  9. #953
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    Re: Indiana Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    SD, I suppose it did sound like a comparison. My age means that I grew up watching IU basketball and RMK just happened to be the coach. I was just pointing out that IMO that IU basketball was never down for long in his tenure. They were always relevant. Bobby took some hits as well, due to injuries more so than the NBA draft. Although the draft did cost the Hoosiers in his day as well. George McGinnis and Isaiah Thomas.

    I am just a frustrated fan.
    It's a credit to RMK that Hoosier fans are impatient. It's like those of us who grew up watching the BRM; we may not have understood what we were witnessing because the wins came so easily and now we expect that to be the status quo. Knight is a giant of basketball and it's probably safe to say his achievements at IU may remain forever unequaled. IU has been really fortunate in other sports too. I swim at the SRSC and the banners in there and the list of Olympians from the Counsilman era never cease to boggle my mind. And then there's Jerry Yeagley. All three of these guys were there at the same time, too, quite an elite trio.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.

  10. #954
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    Re: Indiana Basketball

    Good stuff Sun Deck. Made me think of days gone by.


    Btw in approximately 3 hours I will be madder than a hornet again!!!!!!
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  11. #955
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    Re: Indiana Basketball

    Call me stupid...I have a good feeling about this game.....?

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  13. #956
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    Re: Indiana Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by dubc47834 View Post
    Call me stupid...I have a good feeling about this game.....?
    A Band-Aid has just been applied to my open wound!
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

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  15. #957
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    Re: Indiana Basketball

    Only seven turnovers. For once, the Hoosiers didn't look like the Keystone Cops out there.
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pérignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

  16. #958
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    Re: Indiana Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Revering4Blue View Post
    Only seven turnovers. For once, the Hoosiers didn't look like the Keystone Cops out there.

    LOL, quite refreshing wasn't it? I will also add I thought they looked as good as I have seen them in their half-court offense.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  17. #959
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    Re: Indiana Basketball

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    Seems to me that Crean recruits different players than Knight did. The vast majority of Knight's players were not players who would bolt for the NBA after a year or so. Knight's initial success also came in an era where there was no shot clock, no 3 point shot and players stayed 4 years. He also had success with the shot clock and the 3 point shot and that's to his credit but there has been a drought since 87. Crean's teams have not won any titles but they have been very successful over the past few years. Maybe if he could keep his players for 4 years like Knight did they would win a title or two.

    I don't think it is recruiting different players, it is just a different time. The players stuck around at all the big schools for the most part. It wasn't until the 80's that guys started going into the draft early. You got to remember that it wasn't until the 80's that the NBA got big(Bird and Majic) and money got big as well. To my knowledge Knight had 2 players leave early to enter the draft, both departures hurt IU the following year but the teams still made the NCAA's. Crean has had two guys leave, and they both did it the same year. It hurt, but so did losing the other 3 seniors from that year as well.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  18. #960
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    Re: Indiana Basketball

    What struck me watching those teams in the seventies and eighties was that they just seemed very different. I always thought they played with a discipline to the coaches' program that other teams didn't and I figured he recruited players who were able to sustain that, who could submit to the concept that creativity was allowed, but only insofar as it was applied to his strict play routines and pieces. It really made for beautiful basketball; I was not an IU fan as a kid, but if an IU game was on TV, it would never fail to capture my attention. From interviews, I gather he always aimed to lock up any kid in the region who could fit into the program, not ignoring the national scene, but recognizing that he needed kids who would totally buy into his philosophy.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.

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