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Thread: I've solved all the Reds problems.....

  1. #1
    Member jhu1321's Avatar
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    I've solved all the Reds problems.....

    It's crazy, I know: Package Bailey and Phillips for a younger, cheaper 2nd baseman. Sign Oswalt for 8 mil this year with a 10 mil CLUB option for 2013 and use any cleared payroll to try to extend Votto.

    Guaranteed 2012/2013 rotation of Cueto, Latos, Leake, Oswalt and Arroyo. If Chapman pans out as a starter don't pick up Oswalt's 2013 option and free up more payroll to extend Votto.

    The title of this thread is purely facetious!

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    I don't want to grow up Red Raindog's Avatar
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    Re: I've solved all the Reds problems.....

    Quote Originally Posted by jhu1321 View Post
    It's crazy, I know: Package Bailey and Phillips for a younger, cheaper 2nd baseman. Sign Oswalt for 8 mil this year with a 10 mil CLUB option for 2013 and use any cleared payroll to try to extend Votto.

    Guaranteed 2012/2013 rotation of Cueto, Latos, Leake, Oswalt and Arroyo. If Chapman pans out as a starter don't pick up Oswalt's 2013 option and free up more payroll to extend Votto.

    The title of this thread is purely facetious!
    Maybe we can get a cheap young Joe Morgan!
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    Member alett12's Avatar
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    Re: I've solved all the Reds problems.....

    Yeah, the thing is there are no good young 2B guys except Lawrie, Jemelie Weeks, and Ackley, with Weeks and Ackley being the center pieces if their teams and Lawrie would cost a boat load to bring in.

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    Re: I've solved all the Reds problems.....

    Jose Altuve looks like he'll be pretty good, but I don't think the Astros would have any interest in taking on that payroll.

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    Member alett12's Avatar
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    Re: I've solved all the Reds problems.....

    Quote Originally Posted by The DARK View Post
    Jose Altuve looks like he'll be pretty good, but I don't think the Astros would have any interest in taking on that payroll.
    Average hitting infielder with modest speed and no power? I'll pass, if they are going to bring in a young guy to play 2B I'd want someone with either speed (weeks), or power (Ackley and Lawrie) along with the ablitiy to hit for average.

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    Member Tadasimha's Avatar
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    Re: I've solved all the Reds problems.....

    Quote Originally Posted by jhu1321 View Post
    It's crazy, I know: Package Bailey and Phillips for a younger, cheaper 2nd baseman. Sign Oswalt for 8 mil this year with a 10 mil CLUB option for 2013 and use any cleared payroll to try to extend Votto.

    Guaranteed 2012/2013 rotation of Cueto, Latos, Leake, Oswalt and Arroyo. If Chapman pans out as a starter don't pick up Oswalt's 2013 option and free up more payroll to extend Votto.

    The title of this thread is purely facetious!
    So your idea is that the Reds give up a Gold Glove All-Star second baseman who will turn 31 in 2012 for a pitcher who turns 35 in 2012 with injury issues who's record since 2009 is 30-29?

    We already have a .500 pitcher on staff in Arroyo and he's much less likely to break down during the season than Oswalt.

    No thanks.
    If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve!

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    Member jhu1321's Avatar
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    Re: I've solved all the Reds problems.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Tadasimha View Post
    So your idea is that the Reds give up a Gold Glove All-Star second baseman who will turn 31 in 2012 for a pitcher who turns 35 in 2012 with injury issues who's record since 2009 is 30-29?

    We already have a .500 pitcher on staff in Arroyo and he's much less likely to break down during the season than Oswalt.

    No thanks.
    You missed several parts of the equation:

    1. We'd get a second baseman and potentially others back for the Phillips / Bailey trade.

    2. We'd clear out payroll space to try to resign Votto.

    3. We potentially lose Phillips at the end of the year and get nothing in return.

    4. What is Baileys record since 2009 (21-15 - with a higher ERA than Oswalts). Bailey's been one big injury issue since 2009 as well.

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    Re: I've solved all the Reds problems.....

    I understand the idea in general, but frankly I don't think Roy Oswalt is the right target. Every time I see him pitch he looks closer to falling off a cliff. I don't have any numbers to base this one, its purely opinion.

    My main concern is losing Phillips in the clubhouse for this season. I think he brings a confidence that can help this team if they find themselves playing meaningful baseball in Sept/Oct. I think his actual production is replacable in a series of moves similar to what you describe in the OP.

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    Member alett12's Avatar
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    Re: I've solved all the Reds problems.....

    Phillips not only brings confidence to the club house with his attitude of if something isn't working i'll do it like he did with the lead off spot last year, but i think with out him then the club house wouldn't be nearly as relaxed either

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    Re: I've solved all the Reds problems.....

    How about we forget Oswalt and break the bank for BP ? He's earned it.
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    Member Tadasimha's Avatar
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    Re: I've solved all the Reds problems.....

    Quote Originally Posted by jhu1321 View Post
    You missed several parts of the equation:

    1. We'd get a second baseman and potentially others back for the Phillips / Bailey trade.

    2. We'd clear out payroll space to try to resign Votto.

    3. We potentially lose Phillips at the end of the year and get nothing in return.

    4. What is Baileys record since 2009 (21-15 - with a higher ERA than Oswalts). Bailey's been one big injury issue since 2009 as well.
    1 and 3: I'd rather have the Gold Glove All Star second baseman with the chance to re-sign him than a younger, cheaper one - particularly when making a run to the World Series.

    2: Did you see what the Tigers are paying Prince Fielder? Unless Castellini adds $25 million to the payroll, the Reds are not going to have Joey Votto after 2013.

    4: Bailey is still younger and can still develop into a solid # 3 while Oswalt is on the way down and won't give us more than Bailey or Arroyo.
    If evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve!

  13. #12
    Member RedsfaninMT's Avatar
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    Re: I've solved all the Reds problems.....

    Bronson pitched a few games in relief for the BoSox. I think he would be fine, albeit expensive, long reliever.

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    Re: I've solved all the Reds problems.....

    We could have our cake and eat it too. Remember... the Reds are trying to work out a long term extension with Phillips which could renegotiate this years salary. Say we renegotiate it down from 12m to 8m. They may then be able to do a contract with Oswalt that is very similar to Madson's...

    Pay him 2m now, 2m in November, 2m in November 2013 and a 2.5m buyout with some sort of option for 2013. Oswalt gets the 8 million he's looking for (supposedly) and the Reds get what they want.

    Any hate on Oswalt is a little unfounded in my opinion. His peripheral stats are all on par with his career averages for the past couple years. Fangraphs actually had a good article on how he was good at the beginning of last year, hurt his back and his stats tanked and then came back healthy and his stats were back to normal again. Injury concerns are there, however...

    The only thing that would concern me is who is the odd man out? Latos, Cueto and Arroyo are locks. Bailey (I believe) is out of options. That only leaves Leake which would suck in my opinion...

  15. #14
    Member jhu1321's Avatar
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    Re: I've solved all the Reds problems.....

    Quote Originally Posted by dcameron24 View Post
    We could have our cake and eat it too. Remember... the Reds are trying to work out a long term extension with Phillips which could renegotiate this years salary. Say we renegotiate it down from 12m to 8m. They may then be able to do a contract with Oswalt that is very similar to Madson's...

    Pay him 2m now, 2m in November, 2m in November 2013 and a 2.5m buyout with some sort of option for 2013. Oswalt gets the 8 million he's looking for (supposedly) and the Reds get what they want.

    Any hate on Oswalt is a little unfounded in my opinion. His peripheral stats are all on par with his career averages for the past couple years. Fangraphs actually had a good article on how he was good at the beginning of last year, hurt his back and his stats tanked and then came back healthy and his stats were back to normal again. Injury concerns are there, however...

    The only thing that would concern me is who is the odd man out? Latos, Cueto and Arroyo are locks. Bailey (I believe) is out of options. That only leaves Leake which would suck in my opinion...

    Nice post. I'm just not sure that the FO is going to give in to the amount of years Phillips is looking for in an extension and to be honest I can't blame them. I see Billy Hamilton moving to 2nd at some point in the near future and with him being projected to be "ready" in 2-3 years I don't think they're going to give BP 5-6 years. If Hamilton stays at SS they could easily move Cozart to second.

    I've got to think at this point that Leake is a lock in the rotation given the way he pitched at the end of last year. The only options that make sense IF the Reds are pursuing Oswalt would be Arroyo to long relief (won't happen unless he gets absolutely hammered this year) or to offload someone on the staff. To me, Bailey makes the most sense (actually the only one that's even a possibility) as his potential would garnish the greatest return from a team looking for young pitching. Whether you package BP into that deal, well I don't know, I'd just hate to see him walk at the end of this year and get nothing in return.

  16. #15
    Member alett12's Avatar
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    Re: I've solved all the Reds problems.....

    Quote Originally Posted by jhu1321 View Post
    Nice post. I'm just not sure that the FO is going to give in to the amount of years Phillips is looking for in an extension and to be honest I can't blame them. I see Billy Hamilton moving to 2nd at some point in the near future and with him being projected to be "ready" in 2-3 years I don't think they're going to give BP 5-6 years. If Hamilton stays at SS they could easily move Cozart to second.

    I've got to think at this point that Leake is a lock in the rotation given the way he pitched at the end of last year. The only options that make sense IF the Reds are pursuing Oswalt would be Arroyo to long relief (won't happen unless he gets absolutely hammered this year) or to offload someone on the staff. To me, Bailey makes the most sense (actually the only one that's even a possibility) as his potential would garnish the greatest return from a team looking for young pitching. Whether you package BP into that deal, well I don't know, I'd just hate to see him walk at the end of this year and get nothing in return.
    Personaly I'd rather see Cozart go to 3B if Hamilton stays at SS and let Henry Rodriguez play 2B.


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