Reds trade LHP Jeremy Horst to Phillies for infielder Wilson Valdez

[defender]

Janish does not have the track record to assert he has a given value. I don't want to argue that Valdez will be better. I don't want to argue that Janish was no better than last years performance. I think Valdez is more likely not to be as bad as Janish was last year.

[Bumstead]

don't let facts get in the way of a good rant. I said it before, I'll say it again. You don't trade for Paul Janish... you buy him. You buy him, you buy Juan Castro's. You buy them you shouldn't trade for them, especially when you already have them.

Valdez is just Janish with a Latin last name and a few more miles. That's it. And if you THINK Valdez has value, then you think Janish has value.

What did we trade? Jeremy Horst??? Who cares? He's better than Janish without a doubt. I still don't understand the attachment to Janish on this board. He's horrible and always has been. He pretty much just plays SS. I mean, seriously, Valdez can play well anywhere in the IF and has done that for years and he hits better than Janish; top it off with the trading of nothing for him and I don't see the rub...

Carry on.

Bum

[Bumstead]

That was one of the worst uses of hyperbole in the history of language.

Thanks for your contribution. One more wasted post that helped move this thread to 12 pages...

Bum

[TRF]

He's better than Janish without a doubt

prove it.

I say they are the exact same player. Similar number of innings played, though Janish has gotten to his quicker. Prove in ANY WAY that Valdez is so much better you have to trade a LH reliever, something the Reds only have an abundance of THIS YEAR, and not locked up at all beyond 2012.

I say prove it KNOWING you can't.

Janish isn't a good player. Valdez isn't a good player. I know which one I'd prefer at SS fielding the last out in the 9th. I hope I never see either at the plate in the same situation.

You do not trade assets for Wilson freaking Valdez when you operate in the second smallest market in baseball. You expend cash only. Cash you can recoup. Talent takes longer.

This was a dumb, pointless trade.

[RedsManRick]

Valdez is better (and clearly a better hitter) and knows his job and has no problem with that being his job. For those that want to continue to hold onto this belief that Janish is actually a MLB player, carry-on for another 11 pages. I will just be happy that he is done and that Dusty won't be able to play him an excessive amount in the coming season. War means nothing to me; I will continue to go by real stats and actually watching players (as opposed to stats created by people that don't want to watch players).

11 pages! Hilarious!

Bum

Unsupported assertions supported by more unsupported assertions. Hilarious!

If people actually used evidence for their claims, it wouldn't take 11 pages...

Janish is a more or less replacement level player. So is Valdez. Why is this so hard to accept? Oh my bad, I forgot to look at "real stats" like batting average and fielding percentage and was too busy with spreadsheets in my mothers' basement to watch a real game. I mean, I've never watched a game because I'm so obsessed with making up fake stats that don't mean anything. Excuse me while I get off your lawn.

[RedsManRick]

What did we trade? Jeremy Horst??? Who cares? He's better than Janish without a doubt. I still don't understand the attachment to Janish on this board. He's horrible and always has been. He pretty much just plays SS. I mean, seriously, Valdez can play well anywhere in the IF and has done that for years and he hits better than Janish; top it off with the trading of nothing for him and I don't see the rub...

Carry on.

Bum

Janish can only play SS? Don't confuse what a guy HAS done with what he can do. Janish has played both 2B and 3B and could do so if asked to. But here's the thing, guys that are really good defensively at SS are usually asked to play SS.

You continue to ignore the point everybody is making -- it's not that Janish is good. It's that Valdez is bad too.

Valdez is a career .243/.290/.330 hitter. Janish is a career .221/.289/.302 hitter. 30 whole points of slugging. That's 3 extra bases per month as a hitter. That's a small edge. Janish is a better defensive SS and despite your assertions can play 3B and 2B too. In terms of production, the two guys are virtually indistinguishable. But if it makes you warm and fuzzy to pretend otherwise, I guess everybody is entitled to his own opinion. Though I must say I'm curious, how much baseball have you seen Wilson Valdez play?

[Ron Madden]

What did we trade? Jeremy Horst??? Who cares? He's better than Janish without a doubt. I still don't understand the attachment to Janish on this board. He's horrible and always has been. He pretty much just plays SS. I mean, seriously, Valdez can play well anywhere in the IF and has done that for years and he hits better than Janish; top it off with the trading of nothing for him and I don't see the rub...

Carry on.

Bum

BINGO!

[PuffyPig]

You do not trade assets for Wilson freaking Valdez when you operate in the second smallest market in baseball.

We didn't.....

[edabbs44]

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...ighlight=Cairo

[Reds/Flyers Fan]

prove it.

I say they are the exact same player. Similar number of innings played, though Janish has gotten to his quicker. Prove in ANY WAY that Valdez is so much better you have to trade a LH reliever, something the Reds only have an abundance of THIS YEAR, and not locked up at all beyond 2012.

I say prove it KNOWING you can't.

Janish isn't a good player. Valdez isn't a good player. I know which one I'd prefer at SS fielding the last out in the 9th. I hope I never see either at the plate in the same situation.

You do not trade assets for Wilson freaking Valdez when you operate in the second smallest market in baseball. You expend cash only. Cash you can recoup. Talent takes longer.

This was a dumb, pointless trade.

The are not the exact same player. Valdez can play far more positions and better at the plate, particularly in clutch situations.

Paul Janish has to hit better and learn to play more positions to be as valuable to a club as Wilson Valdez.

[westofyou]

Hand wringing over Utility infielders and guys slotted as third on the Loogy list for the BP

A RZ tradition marches on... Yawn when doth the games start?

[Always Red]

Hand wringing over Utility infielders and guys slotted as third on the Loogy list for the BP

A RZ tradition marches on... Yawn when doth the games start?

One thing at a time, woy.

First, we need to hear that Adam Dunn is reporting in The Best Shape of His Life.

Then, the drama of whether or not ST games and stats count or not, for this player or the other.

I love the rituals of spring baseball.

[dougdirt]

Oops.

[edabbs44]

First, we need to hear that Adam Dunn is reporting in The Best Shape of His Life.

Check!

The Chicago Tribune reported Saturday that Dunn appeared "much leaner around his mid-section" at SoxFest this weekend. He's reportedly worked hard this offseason on strengthening his core.

“I feel good," Dunn said (Tribune). "I don’t know, I don’t weigh myself every morning. But I feel good and still got a month to go (before spring training).”

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/e...97882/34605810

[traderumor]

Janish can only play SS? Don't confuse what a guy HAS done with what he can do. Janish has played both 2B and 3B and could do so if asked to. But here's the thing, guys that are really good defensively at SS are usually asked to play SS.

You continue to ignore the point everybody is making -- it's not that Janish is good. It's that Valdez is bad too.

Valdez is a career .243/.290/.330 hitter. Janish is a career .221/.289/.302 hitter. 30 whole points of slugging. That's 3 extra bases per month as a hitter. That's a small edge. Janish is a better defensive SS and despite your assertions can play 3B and 2B too. In terms of production, the two guys are virtually indistinguishable. But if it makes you warm and fuzzy to pretend otherwise, I guess everybody is entitled to his own opinion. Though I must say I'm curious, how much baseball have you seen Wilson Valdez play?

Valdez is still a better pitcher. He's got that going for him.