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Thread: How the All-Time Reds Team Ranks

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    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    How the All-Time Reds Team Ranks

    This thought just popped into my head and while Spring Training is still kinda lame I figured it would be an appropriate time to bring this up.

    How would an all-time Reds team rank compared to the others in MLB? The second best behind the Yankees?

    I'm speaking strictly about position players, not pitching haha...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: How the All-Time Reds Team Ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post

    How would an all-time Reds team rank compared to the others in MLB? The second best behind the Yankees?

    .
    Probally in the top 10 but most certainly behind the Yankees and likely the Dodgers, Cards and Red Sox.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
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    Re: How the All-Time Reds Team Ranks

    The huge advantage the Reds have over many organizations are Bench and Morgan, two players who are arguably the greatest of all-time at scarce positions. I guess the Reds are short on outfielders?
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

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    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: How the All-Time Reds Team Ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    The huge advantage the Reds have over many organizations are Bench and Morgan, two players who are arguably the greatest of all-time at scarce positions. I guess the Reds are short on outfielders?
    Frank Robinson was no slouch...

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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: How the All-Time Reds Team Ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Madden View Post
    Frank Robinson was no slouch...
    Nor was Edd Roush. Stick Robinson in LF, Roush in CF and Junior circa 2000 in RF and you have a darn good OF --- all Hall of Famers.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: How the All-Time Reds Team Ranks

    I would stack up the Reds all time team against anyone.

    1B Joey Votto
    2B Joe Morgan
    SS Barry Larkin
    3B Pete Rose
    LF George Foster
    CF Eric Davis
    RF Frank Robinson
    C Johnny Bench
    UT Edd Roush
    UT Tony Perez
    UT Ernie Lombardi
    UT Davey Concepcion
    UT Vida Pinson
    UT Bid McPhee
    SP Jim Maloney
    SP Tom Seaver
    SP Eppa Rixey
    SP Bucky Walters
    SP Mario Soto
    MR Rob Dibble
    MR Arolis Chapman
    MR Randy Myers
    MR Pedro Bourbon
    MR Norm Charlton
    CL John Franco

    My list, so I get to include who I want. Imagine that pen with Dibble and Chapman both coming out throwing over 100 and the rest of the Nasty boys also in the pen.

    Probably should have included some other guys, but I think it is a great team as is, one that stacks up with anyone except maybe the Yankees.

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    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: How the All-Time Reds Team Ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyenut View Post
    I would stack up the Reds all time team against anyone.

    1B Joey Votto
    2B Joe Morgan
    SS Barry Larkin
    3B Pete Rose
    LF George Foster
    CF Eric Davis
    RF Frank Robinson
    C Johnny Bench
    UT Edd Roush
    UT Tony Perez
    UT Ernie Lombardi
    UT Davey Concepcion
    UT Vida Pinson
    UT Bid McPhee
    SP Jim Maloney
    SP Tom Seaver
    SP Eppa Rixey
    SP Bucky Walters
    SP Mario Soto
    MR Rob Dibble
    MR Arolis Chapman
    MR Randy Myers
    MR Pedro Bourbon
    MR Norm Charlton
    CL John Franco

    My list, so I get to include who I want. Imagine that pen with Dibble and Chapman both coming out throwing over 100 and the rest of the Nasty boys also in the pen.

    Probably should have included some other guys, but I think it is a great team as is, one that stacks up with anyone except maybe the Yankees.

    I'll take that action. Here is my all time Cards team:

    1B: Pujols
    2B: Rogers Hornsby
    SS: Ozzie Smith
    3B: Ken Boyer
    C: Ted Simmons
    LF: Stan Musial
    CF: Jim Edmonds
    RF: Enos Slaughter
    UT: Mark McGwire
    UT: Yadi Molina
    UT: Joe Medwick
    UT: Lou Brock
    UT: Red Schoendienst
    UT: Willie McGee (personal favorite)
    SP: Bob Gibson
    SP: Cy Young
    SP: Steve Carlton
    SP: Dizzy Dean
    SP: Harry Brecheen
    MR: Adam Wainwright
    MR: Al Hrabosky
    MR: Lee Smith
    MR: Dennis Eckersley
    MR: Todd Worrell
    CP: Bruce Sutter
    Manager: Tony LaRussa
    GM: Branch Rickey

    The only clear advantage I would see the All Reds team have over the All Cardinals team is at the Catcher position. Starting pitching isn't even close. Cards all the way on that front. Morgan was a great player, top 5 2nd baseman, but Hornsby was insane at the plate. Yes, his defense left a little to be desired (just ok defensively) but the dude hit .400 three times in his career (hit an ungodly .424 in 1924) , won the triple crown twice, and OPS'd over 1.100 five different times. Only Babe Ruth was a better player during that era and even at the time, there was debate amongst sports writers and fans as to whom was the better player. I think the Cards actually have more players inducted into the HOF than the Yankees do.
    Last edited by MikeThierry; 02-21-2012 at 01:53 PM.
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    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: How the All-Time Reds Team Ranks

    Comparing those 2 specific lineups...I'd have to give the edge offensively to the Reds lineup. But the pitching isn't even close. The offensive differences are small enough that the huge pitching difference gives the Cards a HUGE advantage IMO. It's not really that close to be honest. But then again, I'd have the Yankee lineup well above the Cardinal one as well.
    2014 predictions:
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    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
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    Re: How the All-Time Reds Team Ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Comparing those 2 specific lineups...I'd have to give the edge offensively to the Reds lineup. But the pitching isn't even close. The offensive differences are small enough that the huge pitching difference gives the Cards a HUGE advantage IMO. It's not really that close to be honest. But then again, I'd have the Yankee lineup well above the Cardinal one as well.
    Again, the only edge I would see the Reds having is at the catcher position. I will also even give you short stop, though Ozzie Smith's ability to save runs should certainly be note worthy. Every other position, the Cardinals players are better offensively.

    I will also agree with you about the Yankees. That is just a who's who of HOF top ten talent. I will say though that I would stack the Cardinals pitching up against Yankees pitchers. That would be an interesting comparison.

    EDIT: I forgot that the poster put Pete Rose at 3rd base. While he played the majority of his career in the OF, he did play 634 games at 3rd, so I guess that qualifies. I would still take the Cards offense because the outfield is clearly better and the bench is better. The Reds simply do not have a Lou Brock to come off the bench.
    Last edited by MikeThierry; 02-21-2012 at 02:02 PM.
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    Re: How the All-Time Reds Team Ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    I'll take that action. Here is my all time Cards team:

    1B: Pujols
    2B: Rogers Hornsby
    SS: Ozzie Smith
    3B: Ken Boyer
    C: Ted Simmons
    LF: Stan Musial
    CF: Jim Edmonds
    RF: Enos Slaughter
    UT: Mark McGwire
    UT: Yadi Molina
    UT: Joe Medwick
    UT: Lou Brock
    UT: Red Schoendienst
    UT: Willie McGee (personal favorite)
    SP: Bob Gibson
    SP: Cy Young
    SP: Steve Carlton
    SP: Dizzy Dean
    SP: Harry Brecheen
    MR: Adam Wainwright
    MR: Al Hrabosky
    MR: Lee Smith
    MR: Dennis Eckersley
    MR: Todd Worrell
    CP: Bruce Sutter
    Manager: Tony LaRussa
    GM: Branch Rickey

    The only clear advantage I would see the All Reds team have over the All Cardinals team is at the Catcher position. Starting pitching isn't even close. Cards all the way on that front. I think the Cards actually have more players inducted into the HOF than the Yankees do.
    Clearly the Reds are lacking in the pitching department, they are way behind many teams there.

    But Rose isn't clearly better than Boyer? And Edmonds over Brock?

    I also think we need to establish if we are talking about players that played for each team, or only the years that the players played for that team.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: How the All-Time Reds Team Ranks

    Without even doing any research, I believe the Yankees would be able to field a team made up almost exclusively of Hall of Famers:
    C-Yogi Berra and Bill Dickey, to say nothing of non-HOFers Elston Howard, Thurman Munson and Jorge Posada
    1B-Lou Gehrig with non-HOFer Don Mattingly in reserve
    2B-Joe Gordon and Tony Lazzeri
    SS-Derek Jeter
    3B-Alex Rodriguez
    LF-Mickey Mantle
    CF-Joe DiMaggio
    RF-Babe Ruth

    Reggie Jackson and Roger Maris would be among the outfielder reserves or DH.
    The starting pitchers could include:
    Whitey Ford
    Red Ruffing
    Lefty Gomez
    Ron Guidry
    Roger Clemens

    Mariano Rivera would head up the bullpen, aided by Goose Gossage and Jop Page.
    Last edited by RedsBaron; 02-21-2012 at 02:16 PM.
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    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: How the All-Time Reds Team Ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Clearly the Reds are lacking in the pitching department, they are way behind many teams there.

    But Rose isn't clearly better than Boyer? And Edmonds over Brock?

    I also think we need to establish if we are talking about players that played for each team, or only the years that the players played for that team.
    The reason why I put Edmonds over Brock is because Brock only played 115 games in Centerfield while Edmonds is arguably in the top 10 defensive CF's in the history of baseball. Edmonds also gives the Cardinals more pop. I love the speed threat that Lou poses coming off the bench. That is why he is a bench player for me. I constructed my lineup as to how well it would play on the field, not necessarily based on HOF status.

    As I said before, I forgot that the poster put Pete Rose at 3rd. He is certainly a better hitter than Boyer was. I would still take the Cards lineup because their outfield is flat out better and their bench is deeper in my opinion.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

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    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: How the All-Time Reds Team Ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    Again, the only edge I would see the Reds having is at the catcher position. I will also even give you short stop, though Ozzie Smith's ability to save runs should certainly be note worthy. Every other position, the Cardinals players are better offensively.

    I will also agree with you about the Yankees. That is just a who's who of HOF top ten talent. I will say though that I would stack the Cardinals pitching up against Yankees pitchers. That would be an interesting comparison.

    EDIT: I forgot that the poster put Pete Rose at 3rd base. While he played the majority of his career in the OF, he did play 634 games at 3rd, so I guess that qualifies. I would still take the Cards offense because the outfield is clearly better and the bench is better. The Reds simply do not have a Lou Brock to come off the bench.
    Well, I'd have the edge to the Reds at C, SS, 2B, 3B, CF and RF. Some of them are close, granted, but some aren't as close as you'd think. I'd also take the Reds bench over the Cards by a considerable margin. Lou Brock was a VERY good player, but Perez, Pinson, Roush...overall, much stronger IMO.

    But like I said, the pitching makes it not matter one lick.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

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    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
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    Re: How the All-Time Reds Team Ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post
    Without even doing any research, I believe the Yankees would be able to field a team made up almost exclusively of Hall of Famers:
    C-Yogi Berra and Bill Dickey, to say nothing of non-HOFers Elston Howard, Thurman Munson and Jorge Posada
    1B-Lou Gehrig with non-HOFer Don Mattingly in reserve
    2B-Joe Gordon and Tony Lazzeri
    SS-Derek Jeter
    3B-Alex Rodriguez
    LF-Mickey Mantle
    CF-Joe DiMaggio
    RF-Babe Ruth

    Reggie Jackson and Roger AMris would be among the outfielder reserves or DH.
    The starting pitchers could include:
    Whitey Ford
    Red Ruffing
    Lefty Gomez
    Ron Guidry
    Roger Clemens

    Mariano Rivera would head up the bullpen, aided by Goose Gossage and Jop Page.
    ouch... that lineup is a world of pain. Honestly though, I thought their starting pitching would be better considering the history of that organization. There are other clubs all century pitchers I would take over that group (Dodgers, Cardinals, Giants, etc).
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

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    Re: How the All-Time Reds Team Ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Well, I'd have the edge to the Reds at C, SS, 2B, 3B, CF and RF. Some of them are close, granted, but some aren't as close as you'd think. I'd also take the Reds bench over the Cards by a considerable margin. Lou Brock was a VERY good player, but Perez, Pinson, Roush...overall, much stronger IMO.

    But like I said, the pitching makes it not matter one lick.
    Have you looked at Rogers Hornsby's stats compared to Joe Morgan? It isn't even close. Eric Davis vs. Jim Edmonds is not close, Robinson was a great player but he was no Stan Musial (Stan also played in RF so LF and RF are interchangeable). I will give you Roush but Pinson can't hold a candle to Medwick or Lou Brock. Bid McPhee and Red Schoendienst were essentially the same player so that's a wash.
    Last edited by MikeThierry; 02-21-2012 at 02:19 PM.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

    Mike Shannon


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