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Thread: Why are people so hard on Stubbs?

  1. #1
    Burn It Jamz's Avatar
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    Why are people so hard on Stubbs?

    I know it's because people expect more from him, but realistically speaking over the last two years he's been the 11th best CF in the league (according to WAR from fangraphs.)

    Most people should probably expect his numbers to improve from last year (as long as they bat him lower in the order...7th ideally.)

    Personally I think he's one of the better CFs in the league and he's a very valuable player. But I'm genuinely interested in hearing what you guys have to say about him.

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    Member mroby85's Avatar
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    Re: Why are people so hard on Stubbs?

    Personally, I think Stubbs gets a lot more of a break than many players, simply because he appears so talented, and shows flashes of a high ceiling. I find him to be one of the more frustrating players i've ever watched because he constantly strikes out, making unproductive outs, and doesn't seem to be improving much with all the playing time. I agree that his potential is endless, but I think that makes him even more frustrating at times.

  4. #3
    Vottobot
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    Re: Why are people so hard on Stubbs?

    205ish strikeouts last year, and the fact the fastest player on our team can't put down a bunt. How is this a question?
    Go Redlegs!!

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    Re: Why are people so hard on Stubbs?

    He was projected to be the lead off hitter of the future. After a good 2010 he came out and basically crapped his pants in 2011, striking out a mind boggling amount of times. He struck out more last year than every other player in MLB history minus Mark Reynolds and batted .243. That's something your lead off hitter of the future isn't supposed to do. AT ALL. He needs to learn some pitch recognition, and once he does (IF he does) he'll be a great player. Until then he's just another player with all star potential who can't get it together at the plate and to watch him go up there and struggle and lead an outfield that K's 500 times a season is frustrating.
    Last edited by joshua; 03-06-2012 at 11:29 PM.

  6. #5
    Arbiter of Good Taste OGB's Avatar
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    Re: Why are people so hard on Stubbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by tedies View Post
    205ish strikeouts last year, and the fact the fastest player on our team can't put down a bunt. How is this a question?
    Agree, it reeks of a guy who doesn't take his craft seriously. That aside, I'm a fan of Stubbs and hope he puts it together. I think there is a lot of frustration inherent in the Reds propensity to strike out over the last decade that makes fans angrier at Stubbs. If he were more of a contact hitter/had slightly better plate discipline/learned how to bunt, he has the natural ability to be an MVP candidate.
    I may not be fast, but I sure am slow.

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    Member joshua's Avatar
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    Re: Why are people so hard on Stubbs?

    I think every time he comes to the plate he holds his breath and tries to smack the cover off the ball. It's not like the kid doesn't already know how to take a walk...if he could just relax and focus on slapping balls into the gaps he'd be a much more consistent player. With his speed all he really needs to do is put the ball in play and let his legs do all the work he'd rack up plenty of extra base hits and be the perfect lead off guy. Imagine that version of Drew Stubbs leading off with Phillips, Votto and Bruce coming up behind him...

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    Re: Why are people so hard on Stubbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by tedies View Post
    205ish strikeouts last year, and the fact the fastest player on our team can't put down a bunt. How is this a question?
    This

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    Re: Why are people so hard on Stubbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by tedies View Post
    205ish strikeouts last year, and the fact the fastest player on our team can't put down a bunt. How is this a question?
    I agree. Better than Willy Taveras and Corey Patterson though. Hope he can revive his young career in 2012. His strikeouts remind me Mark Reynolds in Baltimore. Great player, just terrible pitch selection.

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    Re: Why are people so hard on Stubbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by joshua View Post
    He was projected to be the lead off hitter of the future. After a good 2010 he came out and basically crapped his pants in 2011, striking out a mind boggling amount of times. He struck out more last year than every other player in MLB history minus Mark Reynolds and batted .243. That's something your lead off hitter of the future isn't supposed to do. AT ALL. He needs to learn some pitch recognition, and once he does (IF he does) he'll be a great player. Until then he's just another player with all star potential who can't get it together at the plate and to watch him go up there and struggle and lead an outfield that K's 500 times a season is frustrating.
    In fairness the book on Stubbs even prior to being drafted was that he had a suspect hit tool and he's done nothing since then to prove otherwise, so I think the notion that he was the leadoff hitter of the future was misguided.

    Stubbs does a lot of things well. He's an above average defensive CF with double digit homers and the potential to steal 40+ bases. Even with his many flaws, he's still an above average player at his position and he's cheap. While I'm doubtful that he'll ever grow to be the kind of player you'd want to build around, he's a useful player.

  11. #10
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    Re: Why are people so hard on Stubbs?

    2 things. The perception is that he has terrible fundamentals. Fans hate this.

    The other is that his skill set doesn't match what we (fans) want him to be. We need a leadoff hitter and he's really fast. Wouldn't it be nice if he was a high on base guy? The only problem is he's never really been that guy and probably won't be. He's more of a power hitter than anything else and miscasting him as a bad leadoff hitter (rather than a good 6/7 guy) isn't doing anyone any favors.

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    Burn It Jamz's Avatar
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    Re: Why are people so hard on Stubbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by nmculbreth View Post
    In fairness the book on Stubbs even prior to being drafted was that he had a suspect hit tool and he's done nothing since then to prove otherwise, so I think the notion that he was the leadoff hitter of the future was misguided.

    Stubbs does a lot of things well. He's an above average defensive CF with double digit homers and the potential to steal 40+ bases. Even with his many flaws, he's still an above average player at his position and he's cheap. While I'm doubtful that he'll ever grow to be the kind of player you'd want to build around, he's a useful player.
    But this is kind of what makes me a little confused. Even without being the star that he has the potential to be he is still an above average player and he's extremely useful for the team. It can be frustrating that he hasn't put it all together yet, but this is his 27 year old season so maybe he will finally put it all together? He's tearing up spring training right now (I know, it's just spring training.)

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    Member brad1176's Avatar
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    Re: Why are people so hard on Stubbs?

    205 K's. At least Dunn hit home runs....
    "You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -Earl Weaver

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    Member brad1176's Avatar
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    Re: Why are people so hard on Stubbs?

    205 K's. At least Dunn hit home runs....
    "You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -Earl Weaver

  15. #14
    Member jhu1321's Avatar
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    Re: Why are people so hard on Stubbs?

    I think Stubbs will be fine. A 27 year old CF with lightning speed, power and the ability to both score and drive in runs, yes please. Nobody is denying he had a horrible year last year but I agree with the consensus, he was miscast. Assuming Dusty doesn't poop his pants again he'll bat Stubbs somewhere between 5-7 and I see him bouncing back to something like this .265/25/80. I'll take it.

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    Re: Why are people so hard on Stubbs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamz View Post
    But this is kind of what makes me a little confused. Even without being the star that he has the potential to be he is still an above average player and he's extremely useful for the team. It can be frustrating that he hasn't put it all together yet, but this is his 27 year old season so maybe he will finally put it all together? He's tearing up spring training right now (I know, it's just spring training.)
    I don't think he has star potential.

    Other than his speed, he doesn't have any elite tools. His power ceiling is probably somewhere around 25 hrs, which is good but not great. His defense in CF is good, but not elite. His contact rate is bad, which limits his ability to effectively work the count and become a high OBP hitter. As such, I just don't think he has the skill set to make the leap from an effective, above average player to a star level.

    At heart I think a lot of the Stubbs debate comes back to expectations. If you're expecting a star, you're likely going to end frustrated and disappointed.


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