Turn Off Ads?
Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Fangraphs: Positional Power Rankings: 2B

  1. #1
    High five! nate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    Posts
    6,976

    Fangraphs: Positional Power Rankings: 2B

    Another positional ranking. The Reds fare well!

    Tease:

    Brandon Phillips has definitely established himself as one of the elite second basemen in baseball. While he doesn’t walk as much as you might like, he makes up for that with power and incredible defense
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, Mo
    Posts
    3,661

    Re: Fangraphs: Positional Power Rankings: 2B

    Wow the Cards are bad at that position. I hope Kolten Wong takes the bull by the horns and wins this position in a year or so. If Reds fans had the likes of Skip Schumaker bobbling balls all season long, I think alcohol would be the norm here in the Reds Zone.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

    Mike Shannon

  4. #3
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    8,371

    Re: Fangraphs: Positional Power Rankings: 2B

    I know Pedroia is an excellent defender, but I'm shocked at how much higher his defensive ranking was over Phillips. I'm sorry, but I just don't see any defender at 2nd who is better than Phillips right now. Range, arm, accuracy, quickness on turning the dp, even ingenuity.

    I do agree with Nate and think his bat will regress this season though.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  5. #4
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, Mo
    Posts
    3,661

    Re: Fangraphs: Positional Power Rankings: 2B

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    I know Pedroia is an excellent defender, but I'm shocked at how much higher his defensive ranking was over Phillips. I'm sorry, but I just don't see any defender at 2nd who is better than Phillips right now. Range, arm, accuracy, quickness on turning the dp, even ingenuity.

    I do agree with Nate and think his bat will regress this season though.
    If you go by the advanced stats, Dustin Pedroia was the best defensive 2B in the game. He had a 17.9 UZR last season compared to Phillips 11.4. There is probably only one other 2nd baseman better than Pedroia at the plate right now. That is why I don't disagree with the #1 rating for Boston.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

    Mike Shannon

  6. #5
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    8,371

    Re: Fangraphs: Positional Power Rankings: 2B

    Don't get me wrong, I agreed with the #1 ranking for the Sox. I just don't agree with the UZR ratings in this regard. Oh well.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  7. #6
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    10,547

    Re: Fangraphs: Positional Power Rankings: 2B

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I agreed with the #1 ranking for the Sox. I just don't agree with the UZR ratings in this regard. Oh well.
    That 17.9 UZR 150 rating was an anomaly for Pedroia last season. He's excellent in the field, but over the last five years, he's averaged around a 9 UZR 150 season. Phillips on the other had has averaged an 11 UZR 150. So you're eyes were right, Brandon has been better defensively over their careers.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  8. #7
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, Mo
    Posts
    3,661

    Re: Fangraphs: Positional Power Rankings: 2B

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    That 17.9 UZR 150 rating was an anomaly for Pedroia last season. He's excellent in the field, but over the last five years, he's averaged around a 9 UZR 150 season. Phillips on the other had has averaged an 11 UZR 150. So you're eyes were right, Brandon has been better defensively over their careers.
    Pedroia is also going into his age 28 season and is in the prime of his career. It doesn't surprise me that Pedroia's defense has matured with his age. Phillips is still great but he is over 30. No question that Phillips has had a better career thus far. However, this is the Pujols argument for me. I love what Pujols did in his career but I would take Joey Votto at this point in both of their careers. There is simply more upside right now with Pedroia than there is Phillips both defensively and on offense. Still, debating Pedroia vs. Phillips is like debating whether you would like to have ice cream or cake. Both are awesome to have. As a Cards fan, I'm extremely jealous of what the Reds have at 2nd base and would take Phillips in an instant over the JAG's my team is running out there at that position.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

    Mike Shannon

  9. #8
    Member blumj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Northern MA
    Posts
    4,619

    Re: Fangraphs: Positional Power Rankings: 2B

    I think the defensive rankings in this series are based on fan projections, and there are probably a lot of Red Sox fans among the fangraphs projectors. I think most of the Red Sox players are coming in a little too high in projected WAR as a result.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  10. #9
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, Mo
    Posts
    3,661

    Re: Fangraphs: Positional Power Rankings: 2B

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    I think the defensive rankings in this series are based on fan projections, and there are probably a lot of Red Sox fans among the fangraphs projectors. I think most of the Red Sox players are coming in a little too high in projected WAR as a result.
    Can you tell me who shot Kennedy from the grassy knoll? Fangraphs has probably the most accurate accumulation of numbers out there. For example, I trust their calculation on WAR over baseballreference because fangraphs includes other things in their WAR calculation that baseballreference doesn't. I don't think there are guys sitting in smoke filled rooms trying to screw over the numbers in fangraphs.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

    Mike Shannon

  11. #10
    Member blumj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Northern MA
    Posts
    4,619

    Re: Fangraphs: Positional Power Rankings: 2B

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    Can you tell me who shot Kennedy from the grassy knoll? Fangraphs has probably the most accurate accumulation of numbers out there. For example, I trust their calculation on WAR over baseballreference because fangraphs includes other things in their WAR calculation that baseballreference doesn't. I don't think there are guys sitting in smoke filled rooms trying to screw over the numbers in fangraphs.
    I don't either, this is from the intro to the series:

    To help provide some realistic expectations, we're laying out the ZIPS projections for each player on the depth chart, and combining those with the expected fielding rating from the FAN's projections and our best estimates of the quantity of playing time that a player will get at a given position. From that, we're eyeballing a projected WAR for each player at that spot...
    I don't know of any more scientific projections for fielding they could be using instead, it's just what they have, but Pedroia's projected at a 7 WAR, that's really high. And Ellsbury's projected at 7 WAR, too, and Youkilis at 5 with almost average fielding, they just seem a little high in that area. The only other 7 so far is Longoria, with Kinsler at 6.5, and those seem little on the high side, too.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  12. #11
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, Mo
    Posts
    3,661

    Re: Fangraphs: Positional Power Rankings: 2B

    Pedroia had an 8 WAR last season so I don't feel that a 7 WAR is off the mark, when healthy of course. Jacoby Ellsbury was also arguably one of the top 3 players in the AL last year. He had a 9.4 WAR last year. I would not be shocked to see him achieve a 7+ WAR this season. In total, I don't see their projections too far off based off of last years production. Boston just has a ton of great players.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

    Mike Shannon

  13. #12
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,946

    Re: Fangraphs: Positional Power Rankings: 2B

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    Can you tell me who shot Kennedy from the grassy knoll? Fangraphs has probably the most accurate accumulation of numbers out there. For example, I trust their calculation on WAR over baseballreference because fangraphs includes other things in their WAR calculation that baseballreference doesn't. I don't think there are guys sitting in smoke filled rooms trying to screw over the numbers in fangraphs.
    OVer their careers, UZR suggests the differences between Phillips and Pedroia is a push. I'd be cautious about calling Pedroia a true talent +18 defender...that's rare territory.
    "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  14. #13
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, Mo
    Posts
    3,661

    Re: Fangraphs: Positional Power Rankings: 2B

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    OVer their careers, UZR suggests the differences between Phillips and Pedroia is a push. I'd be cautious about calling Pedroia a true talent +18 defender...that's rare territory.
    I think part of their assessment includes offense as well. Pedroia is a better offensive secondbaseman right now in his career than Phillips is. Phillips is still very good but at the same time only Robinson Cano is probably a better hitter at 2nd than Pedroia is.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

    Mike Shannon


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25