Of course Ohio State is a better program historically. I was born in 1976 and started watching basketball regularly in the mid-80s. Ohio State was probably somewhat better than Xavier in that era (pre-Matta), too, but it wasn't much of a gulf. Certainly not one to be "protected" by not playing each other.
Not that there was even a perceived rivalry/bad feelings on either side before Matta went from X to OSU.
You said you never thought of Ohio State being a better program than Xavier until Matta got there. So your statements seem to be contradicting one another.Originally Posted by Boston Red
If you agree they've been a better program historically, then I guess you should have thought of them as a better program pre-Matta
"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda
Historically. You know like how Dayton is historically probably better than Xavier. But no one born after 1980 would really think about Dayton as better than Xavier based on what they've seen in their lifetimes.
How about National Championships?I don't know that tourney appearances is a fair measuring stick for two programs in completely different regular season worlds in the timeframe being discussed here.
For the record, OSU stands at 24 NCAA appearances, Xavier 23, according to Wikipedia. It was unclear from the note on the site if the four vacated seasons were included in that count.
Last edited by traderumor; 03-20-2012 at 08:36 PM.
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
I don't really think anyone thought Xavier was as good a program as Ohio State in their lifetimes before Thad Matta. Matta sure didn't think that. Heck, Ohio State has just been to a Final Four in 1999. Ohio State was a 1-seed in 1991 and 1992. And that was within 15 years of Matta being hired. Clearly we're not talking about ancient history... like Seattle, Mary Hardin-Baylor or Hardin-Simmons being powerhouses back in the 1940's and 50's.
Last edited by Brutus; 03-20-2012 at 11:11 PM.
"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda
Mary Hardin-Baylor? I'm fairly sure they just became a co-ed school in the not so distant past. A quick search shows nothing on their basketball history.
Hardin-Simmons doesn't look like they've ever been a "powerhouse" either.
http://www.hsuathletics.com/sports/m...By-Year_Record
I'm assuming you're thinking of someone else.
When all is said and done more is said than done.
They were never powerhouses, and I admit to purposely exaggerating the statement to get a point across, but I was trying to convey that we're not talking about a program that fell off the face of the earth over the course of history, as those programs were somewhat relevant at one point (well, Mary Hardin-Baylor wasn't, but Hardin-Simmons and Seattle definitely were). Perhaps better examples would have been NYU, CCNY, San Francisco, etc., but hopefully you get the point I was trying to make.
Last edited by Brutus; 03-21-2012 at 01:05 AM.
"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda
I was confused by your inclusion of M H-B and H-S. I consider myself a fair student of the history of the game and didn't know if I was missing something about the history of those two programs.
When all is said and done more is said than done.
LOL.......I got the point!!!!!!!! And to show my age, I remember when San Francisco was a powerhouse and I was born in '67. Shows how much the college b-ball landscape has changed since I have been alive.
I think I misspoke on Mary Hardin-Baylor. I don't know why I mentioned them, though I was thinking they had been a D-1 program during those years, but Hardin-Simmons was somewhat of an established program for a handful of years heading into the 50s and made a handful of NCAA Tournaments.
"No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda
I see now, after a little more research, that they made it twice (53 and 57).
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...y/_/team1/6120
But really, they were pretty bad most of the time:
http://www.hsuathletics.com/sports/m...By-Year_Record
I had no idea they'd ever competed at that level. Makes me wonder what conference they were in back in the day. May have to consult a book (gasp!) and find out.
When all is said and done more is said than done.
I use sports-reference.com for alot of info.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/...mons/1957.html
Who would have thought in 2007 that, in five years, Bearcats' 6'4 center Connor Barwin would become a successful pro athlete at the highest level, while Greg Oden would have no job?
It is sad that Oden's body betrayed him.
Hugs, smiling, and interactive Twitter accounts, don't mean winning baseball. Until this community understands that we are cursed to relive the madness.
Saw this in the paper this AM... Nothing new, but a summary of the UC-OSU cold war.
I did like the Jeffersonville crack.
http://www.buckeyextra.com/content/s...y-to-thaw.html
She used to wake me up with coffee ever morning
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