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Thread: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

  1. #601
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Unless Joey Votto knew in July that the Reds would land Mat Latos in December, his decision was based on what he wanted. Mat Latos worked out great for the Reds. I wouldn't undue that trade at all. But Votto didn't want to move for his own selfish reasons (that he had worked hard to get to where he was at first base defensively over the years).
    Votto was selfish for not moving to LF?

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  3. #602
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by Always Red View Post
    Votto was selfish for not moving to LF?
    If he was asked to and wouldn't do so, absolutely. And I just don't believe for a second that no one asked him before deciding to put a slow, unathletic guy like Yonder Alonso in left field over a far more athletic and faster Joey Votto, who had actually played left field sparingly in his career.

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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    If he was asked to and wouldn't do so, absolutely. And I just don't believe for a second that no one asked him before deciding to put a slow, unathletic guy like Yonder Alonso in left field over a far more athletic and faster Joey Votto, who had actually played left field sparingly in his career.
    Sure he was asked, otherwise, how do you think we got the quote that he didn't want to move there?
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan View Post
    Sure he was asked, otherwise, how do you think we got the quote that he didn't want to move there?
    The quote that we do "have" is where the media had asked him I believe.

  6. #605
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Unless Joey Votto knew in July that the Reds would land Mat Latos in December, his decision was based on what he wanted. Mat Latos worked out great for the Reds. I wouldn't undue that trade at all. But Votto didn't want to move for his own selfish reasons (that he had worked hard to get to where he was at first base defensively over the years).
    But did they actually ask Votto to move to LF? I don't remember them asking him.

    Even so, maybe it would've hurt the team to move Joey to LF. If Joey can't handle LF adequately (or was a Dunn-type defender), how is that good for the team?

    IMO, if a NL team has two good 1b, the best thing to do is trade one, as opposed to playing one of them out of position.

    Another example was the attempt to move Aaron Boone to 2b. Boone agreed to try it, in order to accomodate Larson, but never got comfortable out there.

    Yonder has a career OPS of around 750.. Even if you give him some extra OPS points for playing in the GAP, it's not worth moving an MVP around and risking disrupting him. Heck, Votto might've not signed the extension if he was pressured to go to LF..
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    No one is as good as he has shown thus far. His OPS is 1.700+
    Well obviously. My point is I don't think he'll be an above average hitter. I think his ceiling is an average hitter with a well above average glove. And that's very valuable.
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    I came across this blog post about Edinson Volquez from a link at the Poz article on Ankiel - first time EV's gone 7 innings without a walk in his career:

    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...ings-no-walks/
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    But Votto didn't want to move for his own selfish reasons
    Some guys earn that right. Had the Reds insisted on his moving to LF, he'd have kept going... all the way to free agency (or wherever they'd have traded him before free agency).

    Thank goodness this front office and ownership doesn't run the team like a squadron of recruits.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Some guys earn that right. Had the Reds insisted on his moving to LF, he'd have kept going... all the way to free agency (or wherever they'd have traded him before free agency).

    Thank goodness this front office and ownership doesn't run the team like a squadron of recruits.
    They earn that right by earning a Gold Glove, and when the contemplated move would have lessened the defense in 2 spots.

    Joey Votto selfish? I think not, I think the Reds considered the move, considered the weakening of the defense in 2 spots and made their own decision.

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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Some guys earn that right. Had the Reds insisted on his moving to LF, he'd have kept going... all the way to free agency (or wherever they'd have traded him before free agency).

    Thank goodness this front office and ownership doesn't run the team like a squadron of recruits.
    Thank goodness they realize that people play the game not empty uniforms

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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    I came across this blog post about Edinson Volquez from a link at the Poz article on Ankiel - first time EV's gone 7 innings without a walk in his career:

    http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...ings-no-walks/
    It's amazing. Volquez is a one-season wonder. I'm glad we traded him away, such wasted potential.

  15. #612
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Re: Alonso

    Petco.

    He has publicly stated he changed his game because power doesn't play in Petco.

    And did anyone really want to keep him over Votto, or did some people just want Votto to man up, quit being a "me first" player and to move to left field and let the far lesser athletic Alonso play first so the team could be better overall?
    Wow. These are the kind of statements that I'd love to watch the reaction of the player's motives being questioned if approached face to face with this accusation. Even if Votto was asked to move to LF and refused, to conclude that is a "me first" act is a world record long jump to conclusions about someone's character.
    Can't win with 'em

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  16. #613
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    self·ish adjective \ˈsel-fish\
    : concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  17. #614
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Wow. These are the kind of statements that I'd love to watch the reaction of the player's motives being questioned if approached face to face with this accusation. Even if Votto was asked to move to LF and refused, to conclude that is a "me first" act is a world record long jump to conclusions about someone's character.
    If the team asked him to do something and he said no, I worked hard to get where I am at this position, what would you call that if not selfish or me first? The team, if they asked him to move to left field, clearly thought that was the best thing for the team (otherwise they wouldn't have asked).

    Doesn't matter really. Not worth getting into a big debate about it. Votto is at first for the Reds for a very long time. Alonso is with another team. We have Mat Latos. I don't think anyone is bothered at all by a single one of those things.

  18. #615
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    Some guys earn that right. Had the Reds insisted on his moving to LF, he'd have kept going... all the way to free agency (or wherever they'd have traded him before free agency).

    Thank goodness this front office and ownership doesn't run the team like a squadron of recruits.
    Some guys earn that right.... and that is why the Yankees defense sucks and has for years at shortstop. It is why the Reds defense was so terrible for years with Griffey in center when it was clear that he had no range at all anymore. There is a fine line between ego and what is best for the team, and teams often go with the ego of a star player. I get that. But let's not pretend that it is always the best option for the team either. Sometimes it works out. Sometimes it doesn't.


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