Turn Off Ads?
Page 44 of 68 FirstFirst ... 3440414243444546474854 ... LastLast
Results 646 to 660 of 1007

Thread: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

  1. #646
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,570

    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Fair point, but I'm still happy Votto wasn't shifted to play Alonso at 1B. Like I said, whoever put the brakes on that idea is a personal hero of mine.

    As an aside, Alonso always was trade bait. It wasn't if so much as when with him. Getting Latos was just fabulous execution of an inevitable transaction.
    And that is another reason I'm in favor of drafting B.P.A. rather than for need. Even if a player is blocked, you can use those assets to acquire a more pressing need later. I say draft for the players that are most likely to develop or have the highest upside. Worry about the future in the future.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  2. Likes:

    Revering4Blue (05-04-2013)

  3. Turn Off Ads?
  4. #647
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,570

    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    In both corporations and baseball, you rely on individuals to do their jobs successfully. Puffy's example was perfectly on point. Baseball players are like employees. They are paid to do a job and the company's job hinges on the ability of each person to function.

    A player, or an employee for that matter, might not want to change position for reasons other than selfishness. Sometimes they might not be comfortable with a new position. They might not feel they'll best serve a company in a new spot. And let's be honest, study after study has shown that happy people are more productive people. The psychological effects of what a person is comfortable with should not be overlooked.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  5. #648
    Member Mitri's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    511

    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    After a recent hot streak Drew Stubbs is up to .284/.340/.420 on the season with 4 SB. A .383 BABIP will bring his average back down to career norms, but it's good to see Drew not completely flailing in Cleveland. He's been hitting either 8th or 9th in the Tribe lineup playing a mix of CF and RF.

  6. #649
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,877

    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    And that is another reason I'm in favor of drafting B.P.A. rather than for need. Even if a player is blocked, you can use those assets to acquire a more pressing need later. I say draft for the players that are most likely to develop or have the highest upside. Worry about the future in the future.
    When we have a GM that we fully trust to execute such trades (like we do now with Jocketty), I'd completely agree. When Dan O'Brien was at the helm, I'd say we had to be a bit more judicious. That guy would trade an All-Star 1B for a pitcher like Dave Williams. Or even worse, he'd do nothing when obvious moves needed to be made.
    Go BLUE!!!

  7. #650
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    18,993

    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    When we have a GM that we fully trust to execute such trades (like we do now with Jocketty), I'd completely agree. When Dan O'Brien was at the helm, I'd say we had to be a bit more judicious. That guy would trade an All-Star 1B for a pitcher like Dave Williams. Or even worse, he'd do nothing when obvious moves needed to be made.
    Before the start of the 2008 season you were poised to trade Votto, Bailey and others for Bedard.

    This isnt a dig but rather just an acknowledgement that GMing and predicting the futures of players is hard.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  8. #651
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,651

    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    That guy would trade an All-Star 1B for a pitcher like Dave Williams. Or even worse, he'd do nothing when obvious moves needed to be made.
    ...well not if the all star is today's version of Joey Votto, but if it was the 31 year old version of Sean Casey who was powerless and slower than syrup in February then it wouldn't be that bad a trade.

    Look, Dave Williams didn't work out as a red. Many of us knew the chances that he would be valuable were slim. I suspect Dan O knew that Dave Williams was about as valuable as a bag of balls. All that said, that's what the 31 year old Sean Casey was worth.

    Nice guy. Really Nice Guy. Never a GOOD major league firstbaseman. If Sean Casey is the caliber of first baseman it takes to make your all star team, it means your league is pretty terrible. That doesn't make him good. You can say the injuries did it or the weight or whatever, but the results are the results.

    Yes, The Reds got stuck giving Dave Williams 1.5 million dollars and 8 terrible starts. The Pirates got stuck giving Sean Casey 4 million dollars and 250 at bats before flipping him for a relief pitcher who put up a 9.00 lifetime ERA and the Pirates were glad to make the flip because it left the Tigers on the hook for the other 4 million dollars that Casey was due to be paid.

    Nice guy, but he had a fork in him. Both teams that traded Casey away during the end of his career improved their own bottom line by making the trade.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  9. Likes:

    Always Red (05-04-2013), Blitz Dorsey (05-08-2013), mth123 (05-04-2013)

  10. #652
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,843

    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    When we have a GM that we fully trust to execute such trades (like we do now with Jocketty), I'd completely agree. When Dan O'Brien was at the helm, I'd say we had to be a bit more judicious. That guy would trade an All-Star 1B for a pitcher like Dave Williams. Or even worse, he'd do nothing when obvious moves needed to be made.
    I don't get the knocking of the deal of Casey for Williams. I never thought that Williams would be successful but if not for the clueless front office in Pittsburgh, the Reds would have been stuck paying Casey's crazy money. Unloading Casey opened up 1B which was later filled more economically and more productively by the Hatteberg/Aurilia platoon. Dealing Casey wasn't O'Brien's problem, it was the deals for ERic Milton and Ramon Ortiz that are his horrible legacy, I'm guessing that was at the guidance of ownership. Moving that money off the books may have paved the way for adding a guy like Arroyo in Spring Training.

    Casey was an expensive, pudgy, judy hitter who produced at 1B like a decent middle infielder might, He had just had his age 30 season and the handwriting was on the wall. Getting Casey off the books was one of O'Brien's better moves IMO.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  11. Likes:

    TheBigLebowski (05-04-2013)

  12. #653
    GO XAVIER! toledodan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    overland park, kansas
    Posts
    1,947

    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mitri View Post
    After a recent hot streak Drew Stubbs is up to .284/.340/.420 on the season with 4 SB. A .383 BABIP will bring his average back down to career norms, but it's good to see Drew not completely flailing in Cleveland. He's been hitting either 8th or 9th in the Tribe lineup playing a mix of CF and RF.
    hitting coach?
    there's nothing like bowling a 300 game! 13 now and retired.


    Ricky henderson has a higher OBP than C. patterson and he's retired. C. Trent 6-14-2008

  13. #654
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    913

    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by toledodan View Post
    hitting coach?
    To put it in a little perspective, he went 9 for 13 in the 3 days before that post (now 10 for 17 in his last 4 games). That incredible hot streak put him at .761 OPS. So do you think he is more of the hitter like these last 4 games or all the prior games where his OPS was .579?

    He had a 7 for 13, 7 for 15, 5 for 11, and 5 for 13 three game stretches last season. He goes through hot streaks for short periods and then does absolutely nothing for very long stretches. It's what Stubbs does. We shall see if his recent hot streak is the same old thing or something he can finally sustain.

  14. Likes:

    Drugs Delaney (05-04-2013), Screwball (05-05-2013)

  15. #655
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    9,877

    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    ...well not if the all star is today's version of Joey Votto, but if it was the 31 year old version of Sean Casey who was powerless and slower than syrup in February then it wouldn't be that bad a trade.

    Look, Dave Williams didn't work out as a red. Many of us knew the chances that he would be valuable were slim. I suspect Dan O knew that Dave Williams was about as valuable as a bag of balls. All that said, that's what the 31 year old Sean Casey was worth.

    Nice guy. Really Nice Guy. Never a GOOD major league firstbaseman. If Sean Casey is the caliber of first baseman it takes to make your all star team, it means your league is pretty terrible. That doesn't make him good. You can say the injuries did it or the weight or whatever, but the results are the results.

    Yes, The Reds got stuck giving Dave Williams 1.5 million dollars and 8 terrible starts. The Pirates got stuck giving Sean Casey 4 million dollars and 250 at bats before flipping him for a relief pitcher who put up a 9.00 lifetime ERA and the Pirates were glad to make the flip because it left the Tigers on the hook for the other 4 million dollars that Casey was due to be paid.

    Nice guy, but he had a fork in him. Both teams that traded Casey away during the end of his career improved their own bottom line by making the trade.
    Sean Casey was one year removed from a year where he hit .324/.381/.524 with 24 HR and 99 RBI. I'd say that makes the All-Star team in any league, in just about any year. The following year (his last as a Red), he hit .312/.371/.423. Not great numbers for a 1B but nothing terrible either. Dave Williams was a horrible pitcher, period.

    When all was said and done, Sean Casey had an .834 OPS as a Cincinnati Red. That is significantly better than our very own Jay Bruce has been career to date.

    Getting back on point (and thread relevent), my point was not to lament trading Sean Casey, but to point out that Dan O'Brien was a horrible GM, especially when it came to trades and free agency. When you have a horrible GM, it is a lot more difficult to blindly trust your Front Office to draft the best available player and convert weaknesses into strengths via the trade market.
    Last edited by Benihana; 05-04-2013 at 06:53 PM.
    Go BLUE!!!

  16. #656
    Playoff Veteran
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Liberty Township, OH
    Posts
    296

    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I don't get the knocking of the deal of Casey for Williams. I never thought that Williams would be successful but if not for the clueless front office in Pittsburgh, the Reds would have been stuck paying Casey's crazy money. Unloading Casey opened up 1B which was later filled more economically and more productively by the Hatteberg/Aurilia platoon. Dealing Casey wasn't O'Brien's problem, it was the deals for ERic Milton and Ramon Ortiz that are his horrible legacy, I'm guessing that was at the guidance of ownership. Moving that money off the books may have paved the way for adding a guy like Arroyo in Spring Training.

    Casey was an expensive, pudgy, judy hitter who produced at 1B like a decent middle infielder might, He had just had his age 30 season and the handwriting was on the wall. Getting Casey off the books was one of O'Brien's better moves IMO.

    I think a bucket of balls and fungo bat would have netted us more than Williams did. He had a losing record and plus 7 ERA. ... seriously ...

  17. #657
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    25,422

    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    I don't get the knocking of the deal of Casey for Williams. I never thought that Williams would be successful but if not for the clueless front office in Pittsburgh, the Reds would have been stuck paying Casey's crazy money. Unloading Casey opened up 1B which was later filled more economically and more productively by the Hatteberg/Aurilia platoon. Dealing Casey wasn't O'Brien's problem, it was the deals for ERic Milton and Ramon Ortiz that are his horrible legacy, I'm guessing that was at the guidance of ownership. Moving that money off the books may have paved the way for adding a guy like Arroyo in Spring Training.

    Casey was an expensive, pudgy, judy hitter who produced at 1B like a decent middle infielder might, He had just had his age 30 season and the handwriting was on the wall. Getting Casey off the books was one of O'Brien's better moves IMO.
    Um, what?

    His career line with the Reds was .305/.371/.463/.834. I'm not saying moving him was a bad idea, because Hatteberg posted similar numbers for much cheaper, but I think you're selling Casey short.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  18. #658
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,500

    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Casey's last year with the Reds netted a .423 SLG. That is like a decent middle infielder.

  19. #659
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,843

    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    Um, what?

    His career line with the Reds was .305/.371/.463/.834. I'm not saying moving him was a bad idea, because Hatteberg posted similar numbers for much cheaper, but I think you're selling Casey short.
    2005 OPS+ was equal to his career 109. Seriously a 1B should be a lot farther above 100 than that. 2003 was 102, 2002 was 81, 2001 was 108, 1998 was 104. He had good seasons in 1999 and 2000 and a brief resurgence in 2004, but he clearly wasn't that guy. A decent 2B could give you most of those seasons. Even a decent SS would have been better than Casey in 2002 and 2003.

    He certainly proved to be a part-timer after the deal. O'Brien made the right call, but people were remembering 1999 when he did it. There was no way they were going to get a good player and have some one take his money off the Reds hands. The Reds were stuck taking Williams $1.5 Million from the Pirates just to move him at all. Even as a home town hero, the Pirates quickly wised up and moved him to the first team that would pay the rest of his deal for a Minor League Reliever.

    Seeing how Casey performed after the deal, I don't see how anyone can criticize the Reds for moving him off the books in whatever way they could.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  20. #660
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,651

    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Sean Casey was one year removed from a year where he hit .324/.381/.524 with 24 HR and 99 RBI. I'd say that makes the All-Star team in any league, in just about any year. The following year (his last as a Red), he hit .312/.371/.423. Not great numbers for a 1B but nothing terrible either.
    Right. How did Casey do ....after ....the trade. The fact that Casey was very valuable in 2004 and essentially valueless after 2005 and Dan O'Brien recognized it kind of makes the rest of your post suspect.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25