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Thread: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

  1. #796
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    to this:
    Code:
    Itís Aaron Harangís world and we are all just living in it
    Read more here: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/marin...#storylink=cpy

    Two complete game shutouts in his last four starts.
    Yeah, I actually watched that last one against Houston and was happy for the ol' Harangatang. Still though, I don't see him starting the year in anybody's rotation come 2014.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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  3. #797
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Alonso is just not looking like the guy some thought he was. Is it safe to say yet that 1) the Reds traded Yonder at the right time and 2) that the Padres kept the wrong guy (over Rizzo)?

  4. #798
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    I don't think there was much debate the Reds traded Yonder at the right time. As for Rizzo/Yonder, I would say yes they traded the wrong time, but who knows what their numbers look like if they switch home ballparks.
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  5. #799
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Alonso is just not looking like the guy some thought he was. Is it safe to say yet that 1) the Reds traded Yonder at the right time and 2) that the Padres kept the wrong guy (over Rizzo)?
    I would have been interested to see what Alonso could do in a normal ballpark that he didn't change his swing for.

    He went to Petco and changed his swing to just try and hit for an average rather than hit for any power because well, Petco doesn't care.

  6. #800
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I would have been interested to see what Alonso could do in a normal ballpark that he didn't change his swing for.

    He went to Petco and changed his swing to just try and hit for an average rather than hit for any power because well, Petco doesn't care.
    So your answer to my two questions is that Petco ate Alonso?

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  8. #801
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    So your answer to my two questions is that Petco ate Alonso?
    Doesn't it eat anyone who is not a pitcher?

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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    So your answer to my two questions is that Petco ate Alonso?
    Why is 6 afraid of 7? Because 7-8-9.

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  11. #803
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Alonso is just not looking like the guy some thought he was. Is it safe to say yet that 1) the Reds traded Yonder at the right time and 2) that the Padres kept the wrong guy (over Rizzo)?
    Alonso's numbers really aren't that far off from Rizzo's. Rizzo has posted a wRC+ of 116 in 2012 and 111 so far this year. Alonso was 108 in 2012 and 109 this year. I know wRC+ is park adjusted, but stick Alonso in Wrigley and you may be seeing different numbers
    Just call me Legs

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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Because it is counterintuitive? Isn't that sort of the point?
    2 +2 = 5 is counterintuitive as well. Now 5 >2 and closer to the actual result, so it's directionally correct, but it's not accurate. IMO, WAR provides similar "answers."

    It's fairly clear to know that a guy who hits and plays defense has more value than a guy who hits and can't play defense. It's also pretty clear that guys who don't hit can't really ever accumulate too much value. WAR tells us basically what we already know without it. Beyond that, it's questionable accuracy (and large and never discussed standard deviation) makes using its values as an answer a dubious exerise.

    WAR is a useful tool for raising the question as to whether a team may be better off by giving up a little offense for the sake of defense, but its not reliable enough to actually provide specific answers to that question IMO. That's my basic problem with it. People take these values as absolutes and as the end of the discussion when in fact they are merely clues that perhaps more investigation is required.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

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    757690 (06-16-2013), Fil3232 (06-17-2013), M2 (06-17-2013), RedlegJake (06-16-2013), reds44 (06-16-2013)

  14. #805
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Because it is counterintuitive? Isn't that sort of the point?
    I would imagine the point is to accurately judge a players performance.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    I would imagine the point is to accurately judge a players performance.
    I guess what I meant is that WAR is an accurate measure that often seems counterintuitive to the uninitiated since it factors in so much more information than do traditional counting stats. Should have spelled that out more.
    Last edited by RedEye; 06-16-2013 at 04:37 PM.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  16. #807
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I guess what I meant is that WAR is an accurate measure that often seems counterintuitive to the uninitiated since it factors in so much more information than do traditional counting stats. Should have spelled that our more.
    Accurate is in the eye of the beholder.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  17. #808
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Accurate is in the eye of the beholder.
    Accurate in the eyes of scientific objectivity. It isn't a perfect tool, but it gives a far more neutral measure to compare across positions and to bring together different aspects of the game.
    Last edited by RedEye; 06-16-2013 at 04:37 PM.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  18. #809
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    2 +2 = 5 is counterintuitive as well. Now 5 >2 and closer to the actual result, so it's directionally correct, but it's not accurate. IMO, WAR provides similar "answers."

    It's fairly clear to know that a guy who hits and plays defense has more value than a guy who hits and can't play defense. It's also pretty clear that guys who don't hit can't really ever accumulate too much value. WAR tells us basically what we already know without it. Beyond that, it's questionable accuracy (and large and never discussed standard deviation) makes using its values as an answer a dubious exerise.

    WAR is a useful tool for raising the question as to whether a team may be better off by giving up a little offense for the sake of defense, but its not reliable enough to actually provide specific answers to that question IMO. That's my basic problem with it. People take these values as absolutes and as the end of the discussion when in fact they are merely clues that perhaps more investigation is required.
    Wish I could "like" that post 1,000 times over.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  19. #810
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Tracking - Alonso, Grandal, Volquez, Boxberger, Sappelt, Wood, Torreyes

    I figured this thread about former Reds was as good a place as any for this: http://teespring.com/EncarnacionParrot



    If you don't get it, google "Edwin Encarnacion Home Run Trot"
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 06-17-2013 at 09:34 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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