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Thread: 2012 College Coaching Carousel

  1. #61
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 College Coaching Carousel

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    LOL.....yes I am biased. But I also look at history. IU never was a school for having successful guys in the pros. That is another topic for a different day. You can throw Bob Knight out of the equation, they won two titles before him. IU has 5 titles......they came in 4 different decades. They were also in Final Fours in another 2 different decades. MSU wasnt nothing until Magic Johnson showed up. Ohio St was a power in the early 60's then fell off the map. But I will grant you in this day and age that MSU and OSU look to be powerhouses, but it is because of their coaches that are in place now. Certain schools, it doesnt matter who the coach is.......IU is one of them. Along with UCLA, North Carolina, Kentucky, and Kansas.
    Your valuing history too much. When your going to recruit today they really don't care what happened decades ago. The thing that IU has going for them is they have a loyal fan base and they are dedicated to basketball. In the recruiting circles its more what have you done for me lately? Who have you placed in the pros? Quite frankly a kid today isn't going to care about Steve Alford or Damon Bailey. Heck if you ask them the probably won't even know who they are, unless Alford is recruiting them.

    Powerhouses of yesteryear are just that, powerhouses of yesteryear.

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    Re: 2012 College Coaching Carousel

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    I agree that because tOSU has no true rival in many of the cities in Ohio,(even UC recruits more on the East coast then the rest of Ohio) and has more money to dedicate to basketball then pretty much anyone else, it's the top job for an aspiring coach.
    OSU's primary rival in recruiting Ohio has been... Michigan State.

    Adreian Payne, Travis Trice, Delvon Roe, Travis Walton, Raymar Morgan, and a few others come to mind just in recent years.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    Re: 2012 College Coaching Carousel

    That's a good point dab. It shows that the model isn't quite as simplistic as we tend to think. But I think it shows why Michigan State is more of a case of great coach, rather than top program by itself. Even with a great coach, they don't really have a monopoly on talent in Michigan.
    Izzo is good enough and has established enough connections that he can dip into Ohio or Indiana or surrounding states, but a new coach may not have that notoriety or relationship and would be starting off on a negative.

    I think if you took out the current coaches, all else being equal, a coach would look and see if the natural recruiting base was in state or out of state. Now that doesn't mean you would only get players from in state, but the further you have to stretch the net out in order to bring in quality players, the harder you have to work at it. Because if you're in Michigan and have to look to Ohio for players, that's a longer distance driving back and forth. More space between the coaches who you can build relationships with, etc... It also means you have to compete with the top program in that state which puts you at even more of a disadvantage.

    I also think the B1G in basketball, with the current crop of coaches and top programs is going to make it really hard for a coach to come in and actually see results.
    It's something that's plagued Indiana football for decades. Without a truly transformative figure, teams at the bottom of the B1G tend to stay there, because even if they improve, they're still barely getting to 5 steps below the elite programs.
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    Re: 2012 College Coaching Carousel

    Meh. I'd say three of the Big 10's coaches are among the top 10-15 in the nation, in Crean, Izzo, and Matta.

    After that?

    Maybe Wisconsin's Bo Ryan cracks the top 20-25. Maybe.

    Who's separated himself (or his team) enough after that? Painter? John B. at Michigan?

    The Big Ten's like most of the big conferences. Some great coaches, some in great spots, and some would be great to replace.
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    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
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    Re: 2012 College Coaching Carousel

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Meh. I'd say three of the Big 10's coaches are among the top 10-15 in the nation, in Crean, Izzo, and Matta.

    After that?

    Maybe Wisconsin's Bo Ryan cracks the top 20-25. Maybe.

    Who's separated himself (or his team) enough after that? Painter? John B. at Michigan?

    The Big Ten's like most of the big conferences. Some great coaches, some in great spots, and some would be great to replace.
    If your ranking current B1G coaches I would put both Painter and Ryan ahead of Crean.

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    Re: 2012 College Coaching Carousel

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    If your ranking current B1G coaches I would put both Painter and Ryan ahead of Crean.
    Ryan for sure, maybe on Painter. Crean has done a great job but I am not sold on his ability to outcoach anyone.
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

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    Re: 2012 College Coaching Carousel

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I meant Indiana and not Illinois, you are right.

    Biased huh? I would rank OSU and MSU the top two programs in the BIG and it isn't even close. MSU is the most recent champion and they won it in 2000 (?). Incoming freshmen were 5 or 6 at the time. If you mention Bob Knight most of those kids would say old crumudgeon and may mostly remember Texas Tech. OSU and MSU place kids in the pros, who was IU's most recent pro, Jared Jeffries? I can really only speak to OSU's facilities but they are comparable with the NBA, very few teams can offer that.

    Dwight K Schrute is a good coach for IU, but I would rank them behind OSU and MSU and its not really close. The one thing Illinois has going for it is they aren't on NCAA probation (like IU and OSU when Matta and Crean took over) and they have a nice big man, if he stays.
    IU has had a few pro's since Jefferies, DJ White, Bracey Wright and Eric Gordon is a borderline all star.
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

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    Re: 2012 College Coaching Carousel

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    OSU's primary rival in recruiting Ohio has been... Michigan State.

    Adreian Payne, Travis Trice, Delvon Roe, Travis Walton, Raymar Morgan, and a few others come to mind just in recent years.
    That has a lot to do with tOSU being on probation during the early part of the decade and the perception that they are a "football school". Ohio State is becoming like Florida in that both can co-exist, although football does drive the bus, unless you're Kentucky, Indiana, Kansas, or a North Carolina school.

    At that time, Izzo was hitting his peak. I don't think he really started dipping into Ohio until after he won the national championship, and that was mostly with hometown kids.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
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    Re: 2012 College Coaching Carousel

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    It seems as though I am going back to the "expectation" card! LOL

    Lickliter didnt do his homework very well. He replaced Alford at Iowa. I thought Steve did a great job with the Hawks. But the fans wanted more and basically ran him out of Iowa City. But that's nothing new there....ask Lute Olsen, George Raveling, and Dr. Tom Davis. Lickliter was doomed to fail in an atmosphere where the fan base thinks they should be winning 20 games every year and competing for a national championship all the time.

    Minnesota has tasted success in the past but it was always with a black cloud hanging over it. Munson, came in there and had mild success. But the fans started wanting more. Tubby comes in with a heckuva resume, has them being competitive but they still want more.

    To me Illinois, is no different than the two above. Seems as though the fans think they are some sort of perenniel power, which is not the case. I just hope that this is not kiss of death for Groce.
    I see Minnesota coming open pretty soon, likely next year. Tubby hasn't changed from his time at Kentucky and he has had some pretty tumultuous teams in Minneapolis. I look for Minnesota to make a run at Flip Saunders to get somebody with a NBA pedigree into the college game.

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    We will see if he can recruit at a high level but you certainly had to be impressed with the results he got from that collection of talent there this year.

    In other coaching news, Miss State is pursuing Dan Muller, assistant at Vanderbilt.

    http://www.cbssports.com/collegebask...sissippi-state

    I like Muller as an assistant, but that's a jump into shark-infested waters as your first head coaching gig.
    I've read Kenny Payne from Kentucky is up for the Mississippi State job as well. Also read Sean Woods is a possibility. Hoping one of those two get it.

    Orlando Antigua is up for Duquesne, which is in Pittsburgh where Antigua is from.
    Quote Originally Posted by savafan View Post
    I've read books about sparkling vampires who walk around in the daylight that were written better than a John Fay article.

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    Re: 2012 College Coaching Carousel

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    Your valuing history too much. When your going to recruit today they really don't care what happened decades ago. The thing that IU has going for them is they have a loyal fan base and they are dedicated to basketball. In the recruiting circles its more what have you done for me lately? Who have you placed in the pros? Quite frankly a kid today isn't going to care about Steve Alford or Damon Bailey. Heck if you ask them the probably won't even know who they are, unless Alford is recruiting them.

    Powerhouses of yesteryear are just that, powerhouses of yesteryear.
    Kinda funny how the powerhouses of yesteryear are still the powerhouses of today?

    They have had a few hiccups along the way.....but they are still there.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

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    Re: 2012 College Coaching Carousel

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    At that time, Izzo was hitting his peak. I don't think he really started dipping into Ohio until after he won the national championship, and that was mostly with hometown kids.
    Actually, two of the starters on the national championship team were from good old Ohio.

    http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/m-...n_andre00.html

    Also, this guy:

    http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/m-...er_a.j.00.html
    Last edited by dabvu2498; 03-31-2012 at 01:50 AM.
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    Re: 2012 College Coaching Carousel

    Quote Originally Posted by Assembly Hall View Post
    Kinda funny how the powerhouses of yesteryear are still the powerhouses of today?

    They have had a few hiccups along the way.....but they are still there.
    I typed in winnest college programs of the 80's and got a sporacle game. The likely suspects were there, but a bunch of other forgetable teams were there. UNLV, UTEP, Temple, and Oklahoma all were in the top 10. The bluebloods of UNC and UK were in the top 10, and IU was 11, but the vast majority of the list was teams that are a shadow of their former self.

    I don't think a kid being recruited today is going to care that UNLV was a great program. I think he is going to look at the facilities, his chance to play, his chance to win, and the chance to go to the next level. We won a title before you were born holds little water anymore.

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    Re: 2012 College Coaching Carousel

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRed View Post
    I see Minnesota coming open pretty soon, likely next year. Tubby hasn't changed from his time at Kentucky and he has had some pretty tumultuous teams in Minneapolis. I look for Minnesota to make a run at Flip Saunders to get somebody with a NBA pedigree into the college game.

    I hope they dont run Tubby out up there. I just dont see that program getting another high profile guy.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

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    Re: 2012 College Coaching Carousel

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I typed in winnest college programs of the 80's and got a sporacle game. The likely suspects were there, but a bunch of other forgetable teams were there. UNLV, UTEP, Temple, and Oklahoma all were in the top 10. The bluebloods of UNC and UK were in the top 10, and IU was 11, but the vast majority of the list was teams that are a shadow of their former self.

    I don't think a kid being recruited today is going to care that UNLV was a great program. I think he is going to look at the facilities, his chance to play, his chance to win, and the chance to go to the next level. We won a title before you were born holds little water anymore.
    I cant disagree with ya on a majority of the kids today, and what they look for in making a choice.

    My point was that there are certain schools out there that historically have been good and continue to do so no matter who the coach is.

    I kind of chuckled when I saw UNLV, UTEP, Oklahoma, and Temple there for the '80's. All those programs were built by one coach, once the coach was gone the programs came back down to earth.

    I know the college basketball landscape has changed over the years. Programs rise and fall. Even the time tested programs experience some years of mediocrity or total chaos. Indiana, Kentucky, Kansas, and North Carolina are schools that I see as the cream of the crop. I see Louisville and Duke being mentioned on the list 20 years from now.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

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    Re: 2012 College Coaching Carousel

    Interesting.

    Kansas State has hired Bruce Weber to be its next men's basketball coach, Weber told ESPN.com's Andy Katz Saturday.
    http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...sketball-coach
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pérignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14


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