What happened?

[RedsfaninMT]

I left the states on the morning of the 8th. As I recall, there was great optimism about this team. I got back late last night and most of what I read on here is now overly pessimistic. So what happened? I don't see any major injuries??? Is it just that there have been some disappointing starts over the past 9 days?

Please clue me in as to why the huge shift in attitude.

[tedies]

I left the states on the morning of the 8th. As I recall, there was great optimism about this team. I got back late last night and most of what I read on here is now overly pessimistic. So what happened? I don't see any major injuries??? Is it just that there have been some disappointing starts over the past 9 days?

Please clue me in as to why the huge shift in attitude.

Because its an internet message board, It'll be switching back all season every season for eterenity... Thats just how the internet works, people react to the extreme one way or the other on everything

[RedsfaninMT]

Because its an internet message board, It'll be switching back all season every season for eterenity... Thats just how the internet works, people react to the extreme one way or the other on everything

I realize the typical whims of the internet user, but I thought this site inparticular was generally for intelligent discussion about the Reds. I have just now looked at the stats, and I see VERY positive results for Rolen and Bruce. It also looks like Stubbs and Cozart are also putting up good stats. I don't worry about Votto or Phillips - and their spring stats mean nothing to me. So I see our LF combo and C position as struggling. I also see poor (but improving) numbers from Arroyo. Bailey is Bailey. Looks to me like he's had his typical decent games, then terrible ones.

But how can people get so worked up by spring training stats? Am I missing something? I ask this seriously, because I was totally away from any computer access.

[[deleted]]

People haven't gone from optimistic to overly pessimistic... If anything they've probably gone from overly optimistic to 'realistic.' Look at the 2012 expectations thread. People are trying to be objective and fair in their analysis, and we're seeing a lot of users comment that they feel we have a very good team with some pitching and depth issues. No one is really stating we have an awful team with no playoff chances, just that we have a lot of obstacles to overcome and two other very good teams in our division. I'd rather be on that board than one with homer-itis.

[RedsfaninMT]

People haven't gone from optimistic to overly pessimistic... If anything they've probably gone from overly optimistic to 'realistic.' Look at the 2012 expectations thread. People are trying to be objective and fair in their analysis, and we're seeing a lot of users comment that they feel we have a very good team with some pitching and depth issues. No one is really stating we have an awful team with no playoff chances, just that we have a lot of obstacles to overcome and two other very good teams in our division. I'd rather be on that board than one with homer-itis.

Fair enough, but to me, if you can't be optimistic during Spring Training, then you can never be optimistic. When I see posts calling for Jacoby to be fired, Arroyo cut, Willis signed, that we have to get a bat in LF, etc., it seems overly reactionary to me.

[The Rage]

Fans that don't understand you ignore spring training stats.

Saying "Bailey is Bailey" is funny as hell. Considering Bailey's mechanics have been off track for over 2 years.

[goreds2]

We are going to the playoffs so don't worry and enjoy the season.

[improbus]

I refuse to watch Spring Training baseball or really pay much attention. The only thing it means is that "real" baseball is coming.

[bmwreds31]

I havent seen any specific threads that are pessimistic however i havent read the expectations thread.

however i have noticed Not much conversation going on. I would say thats because most people are a little bored of Spring Training. Its fun to maybe read a couple of games about some new comers but overall its a waste to try and analyze ST stats.

Im still prepping and being excited for my opening day activities.

GO REDS!

[Ohayou]

One of the many perks of being a Cincinnati sports fan.

[RedsfaninMT]

One of the many perks of being a Cincinnati sports fan.

Sometimes it does seem that we attract more cynics than most. I am all for critical looks at the team, but statements like "fire Brook Jacoby" a year after the team hit pretty darned well are absurd. I know Big Doggie was fired awfully early (will NEVER forgive leatherpants for that), but firing a hitting coach in Spring Training.

Really?

[swaisuc]

Maybe it's semantics, but I think in those 9 days we're starting to shift our eyes from the offseason to the start of the 2012 season.

The optimism was related to the offseason. I think we had a great offseason and I think most feel that way.

Now, we're talking about the season and our actual chances of winning. That means the realization that we're only a few added pieces different from a team that seriously disappointed last year.

[bmwreds31]

^^^ Well while i agree with you A certain BIG RH Power hitter spot that i thought should have been this teams #1 priorty was missed.

Were certainly far more improved than your post leads us out to be.

[NCCardfan]

Maybe it's semantics, but I think in those 9 days we're starting to shift our eyes from the offseason to the start of the 2012 season.

The optimism was related to the offseason. I think we had a great offseason and I think most feel that way.

Now, we're talking about the season and our actual chances of winning. That means the realization that we're only a few added pieces different from a team that seriously disappointed last year.

I would respectfully disagree with you swaisuc. You have added pieces that are all positives for CIN's chances in 2012. MIL has lost Fielder and Braun doesn't have the protection he had and that will show. CIN added to it's pitching and the Reds offense was good last year for the most part. The pitching staff threw batting practice and that's what killed their season.

[swaisuc]

I would respectfully disagree with you swaisuc. You have added pieces that are all positives for CIN's chances in 2012. MIL has lost Fielder and Braun doesn't have the protection he had and that will show. CIN added to it's pitching and the Reds offense was good last year for the most part. The pitching staff threw batting practice and that's what killed their season.

I didn't mean to come off as we don't have a chance this year. Of course we do. I think Latos, Marshall, and Madson are all great additions.

The fact remains we won 79 games last year. I'd say we're looking at needing a 10 win improvement to make the playoffs (even that is probably wild card). Do you think those 3 pitchers are worth 10 wins over what we had? Maybe. 10 wins is a lot.

We may get a little bit of an increase from 2011 for some guys, but we also have some (i.e. Cueto) who almost have to regress.

It would be easier as a fan to just throw out 2011 and use 2010 as the baseline. Objectively though, 2010 looks more like the outlier than 2011.

I should point out that none of this makes our offseason any less impressive. We are talking seriously about whether or not we successfully added 10 WINS to our roster. That's impressive and it tells me that the optimism about the offseason was warrented.