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Thread: Nice article on Votto's future with the Reds

  1. #31
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    Re: Nice article on Votto's future with the Reds

    The undertone of the "all in" nature for this FO this off-season is all about Joey.

    If the Reds make the playoffs and make some extra cash, that will be used next off-season to entice Joey into a LTC. If he turns it down after some negotiations, then I think they start entertaining offers.

    Equally, I think if the Reds miss the playoffs this season, then they know they don't have the extra money to sign Joey and start entertaining offers.

    My only hope is that Joey gets sick of the contract question enough this year to be motivated to do a deal. You simply can't imagine that he would enjoy being under the microscope for a full year.

    That more than anything might actually get a Reds deal done.
    I have a love-hate relationship with Albert Pujols. Mostly hate.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Nice article on Votto's future with the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosts of 1990 View Post
    Haha, it is not. Though he did offer another nugget that I will include.

    When I asked why it was so confirmed in the organization's mind that Votto's gone, he said that his family member who is a minority owner said the following:

    "Cincinnati is too conservative of a town for Joey Votto."

    Not sure why he said it or what it really means. Take it FWIW.
    Unfortunately, this is probably closer to the truth than what anyone realizes.

    I don't think Votto would stay under ANY circumstances - even if the Reds win the next two World Series. It's not about the organization, the FO, the owner, or any of the myriad of in-house excuses we blame for players passing on playing for the Reds.

    Joey Votto does not strike me as a guy who is comfortable in a place like Cincinnati. Sean Casey fit in (of course, Casey fit in almost anywhere!). But I don't see that in Votto.

    Someone mentioned Latos. I think he will be gone the first chance he gets. He is more of a "coastal" personality. It will be interesting watching he and his wife in this stuff shirt part of the country. I'd say he will wind up back in Southern California, or someplace like Boston.

    I have been surprised that Bronson Arroyo has stuck it out as long as he has. I always pegged him as running away from Cincinnati just as fast as he could as soon as he could.

    I still think the wise thing is to trade Votto and get the best trade value that you can for him,and move on. All it will take is Votto getting a pulled hamstring, or getting hit in hand by a 95 mph fastball, and the "go-for-it" is over.
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  4. #33
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Nice article on Votto's future with the Reds

    Most players live out of a suitcase when the baseball season is on-going. In most cases, they're a Cincinnati resident for 4-14 day stretches over the course of 6 months. When the winter hits, it's back to wherever it is they want to live.

    And for all Cincinnati's reputation as a conservative/uptight town, it's also an incredibly laid-back environment compared to most places. The local media doesn't get in anyone's face or try to rock the boat, the people are so reserved that no one is ever at risk for getting mobbed in public, and it's fairly easy to live anonymously in town even as a big-time athlete.

    It's an environment that can have some appeal.
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  5. #34
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Nice article on Votto's future with the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    Most players live out of a suitcase when the baseball season is on-going. In most cases, they're a Cincinnati resident for 4-14 day stretches over the course of 6 months. When the winter hits, it's back to wherever it is they want to live.

    And for all Cincinnati's reputation as a conservative/uptight town, it's also an incredibly laid-back environment compared to most places. The local media doesn't get in anyone's face or try to rock the boat, the people are so reserved that no one is ever at risk for getting mobbed in public, and it's fairly easy to live anonymously in town even as a big-time athlete.

    It's an environment that can have some appeal.
    I guess (assuming the conservative thing was true), I interpretted it to mean he prefers Canada to the American Midwest.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  6. #35
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Nice article on Votto's future with the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
    Unfortunately, this is probably closer to the truth than what anyone realizes.

    I don't think Votto would stay under ANY circumstances - even if the Reds win the next two World Series. It's not about the organization, the FO, the owner, or any of the myriad of in-house excuses we blame for players passing on playing for the Reds.
    Agreed. Obviously players tend to follow the biggest paycheck, but I do think they tell their agents "at the end of the day, here's the list of places I'd like to go".

    Suffice it to say, I don't think Cincinnati is high on most players' list. The Scott Rolen's are in the minority.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  7. #36
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    Re: Nice article on Votto's future with the Reds

    I know plenty of "coastal" types who have moved here for work who say the conservative thing is over-played.

    Get a shiny new pad downtown, find the young, mobile, single set and you can make Cincinnati out to be a nice little party town. For Reds players, it's only for small stretches at a time, as Caveat pointed out.

    Aside from a little moped incident, Deion Sanders took to this town. Need I say more?
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  8. #37
    Churlish Johnny Footstool's Avatar
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    Re: Nice article on Votto's future with the Reds

    I still think the wise thing is to trade Votto and get the best trade value that you can for him,and move on. All it will take is Votto getting a pulled hamstring, or getting hit in hand by a 95 mph fastball, and the "go-for-it" is over.
    I really don't like the "what if" mentality. It stifles progress.

    Play to win. Take some chances. If worse comes to worst, BCast can sell the franchise for a few hundred million more than he paid for it.
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  9. #38
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    Re: Nice article on Votto's future with the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by I(heart)Freel View Post
    I know plenty of "coastal" types who have moved here for work who say the conservative thing is over-played.

    Get a shiny new pad downtown, find the young, mobile, single set and you can make Cincinnati out to be a nice little party town. For Reds players, it's only for small stretches at a time, as Caveat pointed out.

    Aside from a little moped incident, Deion Sanders took to this town. Need I say more?
    I think its a little more complicated than that. It could be a combination of things that might cause Votto to want to play elsewhere.

    It is just that in Cincinnati pro sports - whether it be the Reds or the Bengals - fans just naturally assume that if a player passes on playing here, that it has to be the owner/organization's fault. Team management is "too cheap." IMO, it goes beyond money. It can be anything from weather, to family situations, to any host of other reasons that have nothing to do with the organization.

    Most assumptions are that Joey Votto has strong ties to his family, and wants to be closer to home in Canada. That may be the answer, an no amount of money the Reds offer will counter that.
    Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one, and they don't want someone else's shoved into their face.

  10. #39
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    Re: Nice article on Votto's future with the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
    Most assumptions are that Joey Votto has strong ties to his family, and wants to be closer to home in Canada. That may be the answer, an no amount of money the Reds offer will counter that.
    If that's the case, why does he live in Florida?
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  11. #40
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    Re: Nice article on Votto's future with the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    If that's the case, why does he live in Florida?
    Maybe he wants to play in Florida? Can't see those teams having enough dough to sign him long term.
    Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one, and they don't want someone else's shoved into their face.

  12. #41
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    Re: Nice article on Votto's future with the Reds

    The LA Dodgers are going to emerge from the ownership mess with a mega rich owner, a new TV deal, a lot of money off the books, an opening at 1B and a need to make a splash to counter the Angels signing of Pujols. The new owner may not want to wait until after 2013. If the Reds do decide that Votto can't be signed, that might be a place that the Reds could make a haul in young players next off-season. Votto, Kemp, Kershaw would be a nice basis for a dynasty.

    LA has mostly pitching to deal, but that can be parlayed into a bat or two if need be.

    I'd still rather they sign him.
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  13. #42
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    Re: Nice article on Votto's future with the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeS21 View Post
    Most assumptions are that Joey Votto has strong ties to his family, and wants to be closer to home in Canada. That may be the answer, an no amount of money the Reds offer will counter that.
    .....
    Maybe he wants to play in Florida? Can't see those teams having enough dough to sign him long term.
    (not directed at you specifically MikeS21)

    And maybe he wants to play in Cincy. Maybe he likes his teammates. Maybe he likes his manager. Maybe he likes the fans. Maybe he likes the fact that its a town without a large media spotlight.

    I haven't seen ANYTHING to make me think he WANTS to play anywhere else. And I certainly haven't seen anything that makes me think he wants to play in Canada. The only town/area I've seen/heard him profess a liking to is LA and that's because of the Lakers IIRC.

    Lots of people DON'T want to "go back home" and instead wanted to get away from it. Joey may or may not be one of these guys....but this constant insistence that he would prefer Canada is beyond irritating. Especially when it has absolutely no basis in fact.

    /Rant
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 03-24-2012 at 10:49 AM.
    2014 predictions:
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  14. #43
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    Re: Nice article on Votto's future with the Reds

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    (not directed at you specifically MikeS21)

    And maybe he wants to play in Cincy. Maybe he likes his teammates. Maybe he likes his manager. Maybe he likes the fans. Maybe he likes the fact that its a town without a large media spotlight.

    I haven't seen ANYTHING to make me think he WANTS to play anywhere else. And I certainly haven't seen anything that makes me think he wants to play in Canada. The only town/area I've seen/heard him profess a liking to is LA and that's because of the Lakers IIRC.

    Lots of people DON'T want to "go back home" and instead wanted to get away from it. Joey may or may not be one of these guys....but this constant insistence that he would prefer Canada is beyond irritating. Especially when it has absolutely no basis in fact.

    /Rant
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