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Thread: Reds trade Juan Francisco to Braves for RHP J.J. Hoover

  1. #91
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    Re: Reds trade Juan Francisco to Braves for RHP J.J. Hoover

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    He might start out of the bullpen becuase of need and his success there.

    He could convert back to a starter next year.
    Or maybe he'll be on the Chapman "plan"
    Go BLUE!!!

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  3. #92
    Member Ron Madden's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Juan Francisco to Braves for RHP J.J. Hoover

    I don't think this does Chapmans development or long term future any good.

  4. #93
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Juan Francisco to Braves for RHP J.J. Hoover

    I could see Hoover being bullpen insurance this year.. much like many of the other guys (brackman, etc) that they picked up over the winter.

    If Hoover has 3 options left, he's backup at SP/RP for the next 3 years.. That's probably more valuable than an out of options Franscico would've been, especially since the Reds seemed to have soured on him.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  5. #94
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Juan Francisco to Braves for RHP J.J. Hoover

    I like Hoover, more as a good reliever than a possible starter but this kid can pitch pretty well. If he had one real "out" pitch to go with his stuff he'd be an ace. Seriously, if just one of his pitches edged up a notch he'd be a star - he has the control, and the temperament, its simply a case that nothing he throws is so devastating that it blows hitters away - everything is just "good" nothing is "wow". That says middle reliever to me and that isn't bad. That's a guy who can reliably go through a lineup one time and on any given night and be very effective - its the second time through that he'll start getting knocked up once they'd drawn a bead on his velocity and movement. That's a solid, "get you from the 5th-6th to the eighth inning set up man" kind of reliever that can take the middle innings away from the opposing clubs reliably and save many a five inning job by a short starter. That's the role I see for Hoover and I think he's likely to be better at it than anyone on the Reds roster.

    With a couple of the injuries in the pen I don't see how anyone can look at Hoover's acquisition and not see a bullpen role inked in for him this year. Whatever they do - I love the trade. I much prefer Frazier to Francisco, especially after Francisco showed me how committed he was to baseball showing up fat and out of shape.

  6. #95
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Juan Francisco to Braves for RHP J.J. Hoover





    So on this off day, how about some love for Walt?
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  7. #96
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    Re: Reds trade Juan Francisco to Braves for RHP J.J. Hoover

    One guy has 23 outings, the other has under 200 PAs. And Francisco has a 95 OPS+, not terrible, playing sporadically.

    Tad premature on this one, Tom. Hoover certainly looks good but let's give it some time.

  8. #97
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Juan Francisco to Braves for RHP J.J. Hoover

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    One guy has 23 outings, the other has under 200 PAs. And Francisco has a 95 OPS+, not terrible, playing sporadically.

    Tad premature on this one, Tom. Hoover certainly looks good but let's give it some time.
    I'm certainly not ready to call it a steal, but for 2012, I'd say it's been a success. We've gotten an arm that has contributed to our pen well, and it helped pave the way for Frazier.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  9. #98
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    Re: Reds trade Juan Francisco to Braves for RHP J.J. Hoover

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    I'm certainly not ready to call it a steal, but for 2012, I'd say it's been a success. We've gotten an arm that has contributed to our pen well, and it helped pave the way for Frazier.
    The last part is the key. Hoover is nice, but the Reds had a redundancy backing up third, and they seemed to have picked the right one to trade.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  10. #99
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    Re: Reds trade Juan Francisco to Braves for RHP J.J. Hoover

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post




    So on this off day, how about some love for Walt?
    I think the big part of this is that the Reds KEPT Frazier more so than it was trading Francisco for Hoover. Its a case of the Reds picked their horse and rode it. How many threads thought that Frazier was trade bait the last year or so? I remember a number of times.
    Quote Originally Posted by moewan View Post
    Barmaid to patron "Sir you are slurring, I am going to have to cut you off"

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  11. #100
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    Re: Reds trade Juan Francisco to Braves for RHP J.J. Hoover

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    One guy has 23 outings, the other has under 200 PAs. And Francisco has a 95 OPS+, not terrible, playing sporadically.

    Tad premature on this one, Tom. Hoover certainly looks good but let's give it some time.
    If we had kept Francisco it would have had to be on the major league roster,and would have kept Frazier in the minors.

    Francisco had less than zero value to us this year. His only value was what he could bring in a trade.

    Great trade.

  12. #101
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    Re: Reds trade Juan Francisco to Braves for RHP J.J. Hoover

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    If we had kept Francisco it would have had to be on the major league roster,and would have kept Frazier in the minors.

    Francisco had less than zero value to us this year. His only value was what he could bring in a trade.

    Great trade.
    Talk to me in five years. Don't know how one evaluates a trade in less than a season.

    It worked out so far, that's the best you can say. That's important, sure but it's not conclusive.

    We'll see Francsico's role and how he does with the Braves after Chipper retires.
    Last edited by Kc61; 09-13-2012 at 10:29 PM.

  13. #102
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    Re: Reds trade Juan Francisco to Braves for RHP J.J. Hoover

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Talk to me in five years. Don't know how one evaluates a trade in less than a season.

    It worked out so far, that's the best you can say. That's important, sure but it's not conclusive.

    We'll see Francsico's role and how he does with the Braves after Chipper retires.
    You missed my point.

    There's no way the Reds should have kept Francisco on the roster at the expense of Frazier.

    Francisco had to be traded becuase we had better personal to play.

  14. #103
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    Re: Reds trade Juan Francisco to Braves for RHP J.J. Hoover

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    You missed my point.

    There's no way the Reds should have kept Francisco on the roster at the expense of Frazier.

    Francisco had to be traded becuase we had better personal to play.
    I didn't miss the point, it's still premature.

    Over time we'll see how Francisco does, how Frazier does, how Hoover does. It may well be that you're right.

    But I wouldn't judge it yet. Francisco may get a big opportunity with Chipper retiring.

    Wouldn't judge a trade of young players based on less than a season.

  15. #104
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Reds trade Juan Francisco to Braves for RHP J.J. Hoover

    Francisco is never going to find first base. Hoover a quality arm for the bullpen. Trade your tragically flawed coulda-shoulda-wouldas for someone useful as often as possible.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  16. #105
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    Re: Reds trade Juan Francisco to Braves for RHP J.J. Hoover

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Francisco is never going to find first base. Hoover a quality arm for the bullpen. Trade your tragically flawed coulda-shoulda-wouldas for someone useful as often as possible.
    You guys can tell the future better than me.

    I'll wait and see.


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