Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20

Thread: Jose Valverde Shows The Awesomeness of Wins and Saves

  1. #1
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    15,988

    Jose Valverde Shows The Awesomeness of Wins and Saves

    Jose Valverde impressed a lot of people last year by going a perfect 49-49 in save opportunities. Valverde is not a great pitcher. He's misses bats, but he also misses the strike zone. His shiny 2.24 ERA belied mediocre peripherals.

    In any event, he got the 2012 season off to a start by promptly blowing his first save chance. He came in the the game in the top of the 9th; the Tigers had a 92% chance of beating the Red Sox. He gave up 2 runs before gettting out of the inning, lowering their chances of winning to 65%. Have no fear. The Tigers scored a run in the bottom of the 9th, giving Valverde the "win".

    For a performance that had the effect of a 1/4 game loss, he gets a "win". Yep.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,239

    Re: Jose Valverde Shows The Awesomeness of Wins and Saves

    But he got the win Rick, so clearly he did a good job.

  4. #3
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    10,270

    Re: Jose Valverde Shows The Awesomeness of Wins and Saves

    Really need to establish a rule that you can't get a win and a blown save in the same game. Of course that would mean there will be some games in which no pitcher gets a win, but I'm fine with that.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  5. #4
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Back in Florida
    Posts
    8,149

    Re: Jose Valverde Shows The Awesomeness of Wins and Saves

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Really need to establish a rule that you can't get a win and a blown save in the same game. Of course that would mean there will be some games in which no pitcher gets a win, but I'm fine with that.
    That would unbalance the universe. But the guy who was in line for the win before the BS could still get it.
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

    http://dalmady.blogspot.com

  6. #5
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,296

    Re: Jose Valverde Shows The Awesomeness of Wins and Saves

    No offense Rick, but this thread is awful.

  7. #6
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,565

    Re: Jose Valverde Shows The Awesomeness of Wins and Saves

    Is there anyone left that values wins as a statistic for a pitcher?
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  8. #7
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,239

    Re: Jose Valverde Shows The Awesomeness of Wins and Saves

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Is there anyone left that values wins as a statistic for a pitcher?
    Most the of baseball fans on this planet.

  9. #8
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,565

    Re: Jose Valverde Shows The Awesomeness of Wins and Saves

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Most the of baseball fans on this planet.
    I honestly don't think so. I think ERA is still pretty heavily cherished by most casual baseball fans, but even the most casual fans I know have long stopped paying attention to wins.

    As a novelty, winning 20 games is a big deal, but I don't think anyone judges a pitcher on that much anymore.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  10. #9
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,239

    Re: Jose Valverde Shows The Awesomeness of Wins and Saves

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    I honestly don't think so. I think ERA is still pretty heavily cherished by most casual baseball fans, but even the most casual fans I know have long stopped paying attention to wins.

    As a novelty, winning 20 games is a big deal, but I don't think anyone judges a pitcher on that much anymore.
    If you are like me, you have educated your friends enough that they no longer think wins mean much. But I listen to a ton of sports talk radio. I hear a ton of people who talk about how many wins a pitcher will get.

  11. #10
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    10,565

    Re: Jose Valverde Shows The Awesomeness of Wins and Saves

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    If you are like me, you have educated your friends enough that they no longer think wins mean much. But I listen to a ton of sports talk radio. I hear a ton of people who talk about how many wins a pitcher will get.
    That could be true. I do have a circle of baseball friends that are pretty stat-savvy, so perhaps I'm just not running in the antiquated baseball communities lol

    I'd still guess that it's a small minority, but maybe I'm being too optimistic.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  12. #11
    Member blumj's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Northern MA
    Posts
    4,607

    Re: Jose Valverde Shows The Awesomeness of Wins and Saves

    Valverde should get a pass when he has to pitch after Verlander, tough act to follow.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  13. #12
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,296

    Re: Jose Valverde Shows The Awesomeness of Wins and Saves

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    That could be true. I do have a circle of baseball friends that are pretty stat-savvy, so perhaps I'm just not running in the antiquated baseball communities lol

    I'd still guess that it's a small minority, but maybe I'm being too optimistic.
    I think the bigger issue is the misinterpreting of how some utilize the statistic. Generally, more wins mean more success. It's an easy stat to throw into an equation to describe the success of a starting pitcher.

    But I would challenge anyone to find me a baseball fan with an inkling of how the game works who would think that Matt Cain is a bad pitcher since he is sub .500 for his career.

  14. #13
    Start the Reactor! *BaseClogger*'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Midland, MI
    Posts
    6,417

    Re: Jose Valverde Shows The Awesomeness of Wins and Saves

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I think the bigger issue is the misinterpreting of how some utilize the statistic. Generally, more wins mean more success. It's an easy stat to throw into an equation to describe the success of a starting pitcher.

    But I would challenge anyone to find me a baseball fan with an inkling of how the game works who would think that Matt Cain is a bad pitcher since he is sub .500 for his career.
    Yesterday, I had to convince one of my friends that Mat Latos is in fact a pretty good pitcher, despite his career 27-29 record...
    "On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage," Baker said. "Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me."

  15. #14
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    15,988

    Re: Jose Valverde Shows The Awesomeness of Wins and Saves

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    No offense Rick, but this thread is awful.
    None taken. You can have your wins and saves. I'll have my WAR and BABIP. And we can both live happy lives in peace.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  16. #15
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    North Kansas City, Mo
    Posts
    5,747

    Re: Jose Valverde Shows The Awesomeness of Wins and Saves

    Quote Originally Posted by *BaseClogger* View Post
    Yesterday, I had to convince one of my friends that Mat Latos is in fact a pretty good pitcher, despite his career 27-29 record...
    Yep. Here in the KC area I've had to do a lot of 'splainin' to my friends, too, why Latos is an young ace-in-the-making despite his record and gets me excited. They think he's a .500 pitcher who throws hard, nothing more. "If he's so good how come he hasn't won more?"


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25