Jose Valverde Shows The Awesomeness of Wins and Saves

[RedsManRick]

Jose Valverde impressed a lot of people last year by going a perfect 49-49 in save opportunities. Valverde is not a great pitcher. He's misses bats, but he also misses the strike zone. His shiny 2.24 ERA belied mediocre peripherals.

In any event, he got the 2012 season off to a start by promptly blowing his first save chance. He came in the the game in the top of the 9th; the Tigers had a 92% chance of beating the Red Sox. He gave up 2 runs before gettting out of the inning, lowering their chances of winning to 65%. Have no fear. The Tigers scored a run in the bottom of the 9th, giving Valverde the "win".

For a performance that had the effect of a 1/4 game loss, he gets a "win". Yep.

[dougdirt]

But he got the win Rick, so clearly he did a good job.

[757690]

Really need to establish a rule that you can't get a win and a blown save in the same game. Of course that would mean there will be some games in which no pitcher gets a win, but I'm fine with that.

[oneupper]

Really need to establish a rule that you can't get a win and a blown save in the same game. Of course that would mean there will be some games in which no pitcher gets a win, but I'm fine with that.

That would unbalance the universe. But the guy who was in line for the win before the BS could still get it.

[edabbs44]

No offense Rick, but this thread is awful.

[Brutus]

Is there anyone left that values wins as a statistic for a pitcher?

[dougdirt]

Is there anyone left that values wins as a statistic for a pitcher?

Most the of baseball fans on this planet.

[Brutus]

Most the of baseball fans on this planet.

I honestly don't think so. I think ERA is still pretty heavily cherished by most casual baseball fans, but even the most casual fans I know have long stopped paying attention to wins.

As a novelty, winning 20 games is a big deal, but I don't think anyone judges a pitcher on that much anymore.

[dougdirt]

I honestly don't think so. I think ERA is still pretty heavily cherished by most casual baseball fans, but even the most casual fans I know have long stopped paying attention to wins.

As a novelty, winning 20 games is a big deal, but I don't think anyone judges a pitcher on that much anymore.

If you are like me, you have educated your friends enough that they no longer think wins mean much. But I listen to a ton of sports talk radio. I hear a ton of people who talk about how many wins a pitcher will get.

[Brutus]

If you are like me, you have educated your friends enough that they no longer think wins mean much. But I listen to a ton of sports talk radio. I hear a ton of people who talk about how many wins a pitcher will get.

That could be true. I do have a circle of baseball friends that are pretty stat-savvy, so perhaps I'm just not running in the antiquated baseball communities lol

I'd still guess that it's a small minority, but maybe I'm being too optimistic.

[blumj]

Valverde should get a pass when he has to pitch after Verlander, tough act to follow.

[edabbs44]

That could be true. I do have a circle of baseball friends that are pretty stat-savvy, so perhaps I'm just not running in the antiquated baseball communities lol

I'd still guess that it's a small minority, but maybe I'm being too optimistic.

I think the bigger issue is the misinterpreting of how some utilize the statistic. Generally, more wins mean more success. It's an easy stat to throw into an equation to describe the success of a starting pitcher.

But I would challenge anyone to find me a baseball fan with an inkling of how the game works who would think that Matt Cain is a bad pitcher since he is sub .500 for his career.

[*BaseClogger*]

I think the bigger issue is the misinterpreting of how some utilize the statistic. Generally, more wins mean more success. It's an easy stat to throw into an equation to describe the success of a starting pitcher.

But I would challenge anyone to find me a baseball fan with an inkling of how the game works who would think that Matt Cain is a bad pitcher since he is sub .500 for his career.

Yesterday, I had to convince one of my friends that Mat Latos is in fact a pretty good pitcher, despite his career 27-29 record...

[RedsManRick]

No offense Rick, but this thread is awful.

None taken. You can have your wins and saves. I'll have my WAR and BABIP. And we can both live happy lives in peace.

[RedlegJake]

Yesterday, I had to convince one of my friends that Mat Latos is in fact a pretty good pitcher, despite his career 27-29 record...

Yep. Here in the KC area I've had to do a lot of 'splainin' to my friends, too, why Latos is an young ace-in-the-making despite his record and gets me excited. They think he's a .500 pitcher who throws hard, nothing more. "If he's so good how come he hasn't won more?"