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Thread: Day Game Again 1:05 start; Thursday 4.12.12 Reds @ Nationals

  1. #331
    Member kbrake's Avatar
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    Re: Day Game Again 1:05 start; Thursday 4.12.12 Reds @ Nationals

    Quote Originally Posted by Reds/Flyers Fan View Post
    When does Brook Jacoby start taking some heat for this offense? Two years of this now and nothing changes. There is no different approach from Stubbs this year from past years.

    Broken record.
    I don't think Ted Williams could teach Drew Stubbs to hit.

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  3. #332
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    Re: Day Game Again 1:05 start; Thursday 4.12.12 Reds @ Nationals

    Quote Originally Posted by RichRed View Post
    Trust me, even though I posted that it's a team loss - because it's technically true - Dusty's the one I'm most furious at. If Marshall's in there, I'm convinced the Reds get at least one more chance to scrape a run or two across.

    I never wanted Dusty to be the Reds' manager to begin with but I had softened my criticism over the past couple of years. Close games like this really expose his weaknesses though. When the margin for error is small, I don't want Dusty to be the one making the tough calls.
    Which explains the dreadful record last year in one-run games.

  4. #333
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Day Game Again 1:05 start; Thursday 4.12.12 Reds @ Nationals

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    It's April 12. Instead of Dusty letting the fans decide who should and shouldn't be pitching, or rather telling him who isn't capable of handling situations, he should be finding that out for himself.

    I'm glad he's handling it this way. It's too early for anyone, fans, managers or otherwise, to be making snap judgments at who's incapable of handling certain situations. This is a 162-game season. He should absolutely be concerned about the Macro, not the Micro, especially in April.
    I understand that. Buit isn't that what spring training is for?

    I just don't like having try-outs at critical points in regular season games firing live ammo.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  5. #334
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Day Game Again 1:05 start; Thursday 4.12.12 Reds @ Nationals

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    I understand that. Buit isn't that what spring training is for?

    I just don't like having try-outs at critical points in regular season games firing live ammo.
    Spring training doesn't simulate these situations very well. You know that. Even if you have a 2-2 game in extra innings, there's just not the same intensity or emotion of a game.

    Besides, in this case, Simon wasn't around for most of spring training to find anything out about him. The Reds have to put his feet to the fire and see what he's capable of. Bottom line is that you can't go using up all your good arms in April. Funny thing is, in the past, I've heard some of these same people complain that Dusty uses these guys "too much." The Reds need contributions from others in the bullpen besides Marshall, Chapman, etc. I'd rather they find out now who those guys will be.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  6. #335
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Day Game Again 1:05 start; Thursday 4.12.12 Reds @ Nationals

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    but you have to keep them from scoring to get a chance to win. That comes before managing for a save.
    I don't think so. If the Reds were going to win this game, Marshall was going to pitch. Whether it was the 10th, the 11th, the 14th.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  7. #336
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Day Game Again 1:05 start; Thursday 4.12.12 Reds @ Nationals

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    I don't think so. If the Reds were going to win this game, Marshall was going to pitch. Whether it was the 10th, the 11th, the 14th.
    hmmm, but it didn't make it to the 11th. So how did that work out for them?
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  8. #337
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Day Game Again 1:05 start; Thursday 4.12.12 Reds @ Nationals

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Spring training doesn't simulate these situations very well. You know that. Even if you have a 2-2 game in extra innings, there's just not the same intensity or emotion of a game.

    Besides, in this case, Simon wasn't around for most of spring training to find anything out about him. The Reds have to put his feet to the fire and see what he's capable of. Bottom line is that you can't go using up all your good arms in April. Funny thing is, in the past, I've heard some of these same people complain that Dusty uses these guys "too much." The Reds need contributions from others in the bullpen besides Marshall, Chapman, etc. I'd rather they find out now who those guys will be.
    I understand the argument and I'm not totally against it.

    It just drives me nuts to essentially have a try-out in the middle of a game and give it away. You put a guy in where you give him a good chance at succeeding. I just think this was a poor decision.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  9. #338
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Day Game Again 1:05 start; Thursday 4.12.12 Reds @ Nationals

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    I understand the argument and I'm not totally against it.

    It just drives me nuts to essentially have a try-out in the middle of a game and give it away. You put a guy in where you give him a good chance at succeeding. I just think this was a poor decision.
    Simon has some of the best 'stuff' on the staff. He's got six strikeouts and just one walk in 2 2/3 innings thus far. His command hasn't been very good, but I could see why the Reds want to use him. If he can harness his pitches a bit better, he's going to be a good option for the Reds. We're not talking about a guy who has no talent. This guy has the goods. I think the Reds are wise to give him a shot.

    I understand the frustration, but people are overreacting a bit about this. It's a game in April. These are the times you figure these things out. Almost never is a team fortunate enough to have everything decided in terms of personnel immediately to begin a season. Even when you do, injuries quickly change those plans.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  10. #339
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    Re: Day Game Again 1:05 start; Thursday 4.12.12 Reds @ Nationals

    IMO, the managers #1 job is to give his team their best chance to win... Dusty didn't do that today!

    The hitting has to get better... The starting pitching hasn't been great.... But when you battle to get back in a game you have no business winning, then I expect the manager to pull out all the stops. If nothing else, you've gotta do what you can to get Votto Bruce and Rolen another AB.
    I know a lot of people are talking about his on-base percentage (.308 in 2008), but I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage. - Our Beloved Manager

  11. #340
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    Re: Day Game Again 1:05 start; Thursday 4.12.12 Reds @ Nationals

    I understand the logic for saving Marshall. I understand the logic for saving Bray -- either saving him for a longer game or possibly concerned about a righty pinch hitter coming up against him.

    But it's impossible to me to justify using Simon in that spot. It's just a key spot for a pitcher with his track record who was picked up on waivers.

  12. #341
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Day Game Again 1:05 start; Thursday 4.12.12 Reds @ Nationals

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    Simon has some of the best 'stuff' on the staff. He's got six strikeouts and just one walk in 2 2/3 innings thus far. His command hasn't been very good, but I could see why the Reds want to use him. If he can harness his pitches a bit better, he's going to be a good option for the Reds. We're not talking about a guy who has no talent. This guy has the goods. I think the Reds are wise to give him a shot.

    I understand the frustration, but people are overreacting a bit about this. It's a game in April. These are the times you figure these things out. Almost never is a team fortunate enough to have everything decided in terms of personnel immediately to begin a season. Even when you do, injuries quickly change those plans.
    I guess. Like I said, I understand the argument and I'm not totally against it.

    It's the old saw that a project slips one day at a time. It was a game where winning was in the balance but there were other agendas at play besides winning this game. It was an L that didn't necessarily have to be an L and its one you can't get back. Sure its April and there is time to make it up, but I really don't like that argument. Do everything you can to win the ones you have a shot at because too many happen where you don't have that shot.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  13. #342
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Day Game Again 1:05 start; Thursday 4.12.12 Reds @ Nationals

    Even if we concede that it's acceptable to have Simon pitch the 10th, once it became apparent he didn't have good control he should've been yanked, especially with Bray warming. Simon threw 7 strikes out of 16 pitches.
    "I can make all the stadiums rock."
    -Air Supply

  14. #343
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    Re: Day Game Again 1:05 start; Thursday 4.12.12 Reds @ Nationals

    I want my best available pitcher out there with the game on the line... I don't want to save Marshalll just because he could possibly save the game. Go to Marshall, if he gives up a hit, fine... At least you were beat with your best. I hate saving guys for possible situations, especially situations that won't appear if you don't go to the plate again.
    I know a lot of people are talking about his on-base percentage (.308 in 2008), but I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage. - Our Beloved Manager

  15. #344
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    Re: Day Game Again 1:05 start; Thursday 4.12.12 Reds @ Nationals

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    I guess. Like I said, I understand the argument and I'm not totally against it.

    It's the old saw that a project slips one day at a time. It was a game where winning was in the balance but there were other agendas at play besides winning this game. It was an L that didn't necessarily have to be an L and its one you can't get back. Sure its April and there is time to make it up, but I really don't like that argument. Do everything you can to win the ones you have a shot at because too many happen where you don't have that shot.
    If you truly managed a team based on your "best chance" to win a game, you'd have your best relievers burnt out by July, yes?

    I understand high and low leverage situations and being selective about how pitchers are managed. But when you get to extra innings and your bullpen has already gone four innings and knowing you'll wind up with nine days without a day off before the stretch of games are over with, you kind of lose the selectivity.

    The Reds need to find out about Simon. I'd rather they do so in April, especially during a period of nine consecutive days where they'll have to count on him for some high-leverage innings, than burning out their best arms and then finding out in July. I'm not ready to write the guy off. His stuff is filthy. Even today, I didn't get the sense the Nationals were going to get another hit off him. Unfortunately they didn't need to. My point though is that the guy throws some devastating pitches. I hope the Reds stick with him... contrary to the tenor of this thread, it might well pay off.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  16. #345
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    Re: Day Game Again 1:05 start; Thursday 4.12.12 Reds @ Nationals

    Marshall has been one of the best relievers in baseball... He's also been more valuable than most because he pitched multiple innings. Pigeon holing him for save situation decreases his innings and appearances. Through 7 games he has 0 saves, he's thrown 2-3 innings, and he's being saved in an extra inning game... That doesn't add up!
    I know a lot of people are talking about his on-base percentage (.308 in 2008), but I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage. - Our Beloved Manager


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