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Thread: Reds are in serious trouble

  1. #1
    He has the Evil Eye! flyer85's Avatar
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    Reds are in serious trouble

    now just now but maybe for the future. Latos stunk again tonight but that isn't necessarily a major issue as he has started slowly the past 2 years. It may well be that the paradigm has changed with the end of the steroid era and the hardest thing to acquire is not good young pitching but is now good young hitting. I really liked the deal that Seattle did for Montero in the off season.

    Jocketty traded away the jewels to acquire something the Reds may not have needed the most, especially with Chapman in the wings. The Reds have huge holes at several spots and no heir apparent in the minors, no players to trade to acquire them and little money to sign anyone.

    Those contracts awarded votto and Phillips still leave me scratching my head. There is no way they end well.

    And for God's sake play Mesoraco every day and move him into the middle of the order, this isn't that hard.
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    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Reds are in serious trouble

    I disagree with the premise that young pitching is/will be easier to get than hitting.

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    remdog (05-02-2013)

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    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds are in serious trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I disagree with the premise that young pitching is/will be easier to get than hitting.
    Same. I do think the Reds have neglected offense, but I don't agree that it has become anymore difficult to obtain.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Reds are in serious trouble

    Alonso is hitting .237 with a .592 OPS for San Diego.

    It's still early, obviously every day it gets more and more infuriating - but it is still early.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
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    Future Fame of Holler WildcatFan's Avatar
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    Re: Reds are in serious trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by flyer85 View Post
    now just now but maybe for the future. Latos stunk again tonight but that isn't necessarily a major issue as he has started slowly the past 2 years. It may well be that the paradigm has changed with the end of the steroid era and the hardest thing to acquire is not good young pitching but is now good young hitting. I really liked the deal that Seattle did for Montero in the off season.

    Jocketty traded away the jewels to acquire something the Reds may not have needed the most, especially with Chapman in the wings. The Reds have huge holes at several spots and no heir apparent in the minors, no players to trade to acquire them and little money to sign anyone.

    Those contracts awarded votto and Phillips still leave me scratching my head. There is no way they end well.

    And for God's sake play Mesoraco every day and move him into the middle of the order, this isn't that hard.
    Are we still ignoring the whole "It's April" thing?

    Yes, there have been some real problems in the first 2.5 weeks, but the Latos trade and especially the Votto and Phillips contracts have NOTHING to do with them.

    Yes, Mes had a good night, but he has 65 major league at bats. Middle of the lineup may be premature.

    Yes, the offense is in a rut, but there are enough great hitters to pull out of it soon.
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

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    Re: Reds are in serious trouble

    Interesting ... a few weeks ago, Walt Jocketty was a genius and the Reds were loaded and poised to win the NL Central because St. Louis and Milwaukee were both going to have down years.

    Shouldn't we see how the law of averages play out before crying that the sky is falling?
    Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one, and they don't want someone else's shoved into their face.

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    Member SirFelixCat's Avatar
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    Re: Reds are in serious trouble

    Having 6 starters (2 are LF) below or at the Mendoza line ain't helping.

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    Re: Reds are in serious trouble

    I still say the Brandon Phillips extension is the weirdest thing I have ever seen a Reds GM do.

    I'm not quite sure how it makes sense on any level.
    This is the time. The real Reds organization is back.

  11. #9
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Reds are in serious trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Cedric View Post
    I still say the Brandon Phillips extension is the weirdest thing I have ever seen a Reds GM do.

    I'm not quite sure how it makes sense on any level.
    It was surprising, especially the day after a Griffeyish hamstring incident. Not complaining, but yes, it was odd.

  12. #10
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Reds are in serious trouble

    The guy the Reds traded away are blocked from playing up here anyways.

    Now if you think they should have used those resources to acquire something else, that's fair.
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    The Future is Now Ghosts of 1990's Avatar
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    Re: Reds are in serious trouble

    Reds have SO many problems right now. I mean, take your pick.

    Only ones free from blame are Votto, Cozart, and Chapman. Cueto has been decent.

    To be honest they're playing so rotten they're threatening to ruin a season 12 games in. As far as I'm concerned I'm tired of Bruce, Bailey, Dusty Baker, Stubbs, Arroyo, Leake. Not really a believer in Latos but whatever. Keep him around and let him be Volquez's blond doppleganger to justify the trade just like they tried to do when they dealt Hamilton.

    Walt has messed up badly here. Gut the team, build around Votto and Phillips because that's the corner you painted yourself into. That's the only chance we have to be competitive in a few years. I'm not convinced that you can win with guys like Stubbs and Bruce in the everyday lineup taking routine 1 for 20's. You just can't win like that. Look at Texas. Look around at successful teams. They just don't have guys that streaky in their lineup.

    Huge problems. I can't believe what I'm seeing here. Twelve games in, and I am already sick of Reds baseball. Unbelievable.
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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Reds are in serious trouble

    I'm not necessarily a total optimist when it comes to this season, but goodness gracious I have a feeling there is going to be some downright hilarious reading material in July when looking back at April.

    Let that sink in for a second. We're still three months from when teams usually throw in the towel and people are talking about managers being fired, general managers not getting the job done, players needing to go, etc.

    For crying out loud we're 7% of the way into the season. It's barely even far enough in to have any kind of decent sample size let alone be making definitive judgments.

    When the season began, I thought this team would be a good pitching staff (even without Madson) and about an average offense with above-average defense. If the offensive players were even hitting their career averages right now, the Reds would be in first place or a game or two back and there would be absolutely no one worrying in the slightest. And that's without the starting pitchers really pitching to their ability.

    The point here is this won't keep up. While the offense might have some holes, it's not going to be prolifically bad. The conclusions are reaching an all-time high (or low) for ridiculousness right now. Like I said... let's revisit this in July. I tend to think this will be a whole different picture.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  15. #13
    Pitching is the thing WVRedsFan's Avatar
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    Re: Reds are in serious trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I disagree with the premise that young pitching is/will be easier to get than hitting.
    Two of us.
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  16. #14
    Moderator The Operator's Avatar
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    Re: Reds are in serious trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosts of 1990 View Post
    Only ones free from blame are Votto, Cozart, and Chapman. Cueto has been decent.
    I'd say Cueto has been more than decent. 1.89 ERA and two 7 IP outings already. Yes his last start got off to a rocky beginning but he ended up with a great night.

    To be honest they're playing so rotten they're threatening to ruin a season 12 games in. As far as I'm concerned I'm tired of Bruce, Bailey, Dusty Baker, Stubbs, Arroyo, Leake.
    While I disagree on all of the players you mention sans Arroyo, why lump Bruce in there? After the third or fourth game of the season, you were saying he had unlimited potential and was going to "put the league on notice this year". Has a week's worth of games made him go from superstar to DFA fodder?

    Not really a believer in Latos but whatever. Keep him around and let him be Volquez's blond doppleganger to justify the trade just like they tried to do when they dealt Hamilton.
    Latos is frustrating the crap out of me, but he's had a terrible April every single year of his career so I'm not giving up yet. And he's nothing like Volquez, Latos can actually find the strike zone (check out his career walk numbers) and has the sustained success to prove it.

    Walt has messed up badly here. Gut the team
    Twelve. Games. Patience, my friend. Patience.
    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    Don't worry. I'd say the game threads are about league average.
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    Re: Reds are in serious trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post

    The point here is this won't keep up. While the offense might have some holes, it's not going to be prolifically bad. The conclusions are reaching an all-time high (or low) for ridiculousness right now. Like I said... let's revisit this in July. I tend to think this will be a whole different picture.
    Another post criticizing the posters. Great, thanks.

    Some of these hitters are underachieving and will snap back. I think Rolen will get better, he missed a lot of time last year and is getting his timing back. He won't be Hall of Fame Rolen, but he'll do better. Phillips' injury is too bad, it's obviously impairing him. The good players will improve over the season.

    Some of the other hitters are just not good and they won't be good in July, in September, on Thanksgiving, during the Holiday Season, in 2013, or probably ever.

    And if people think the team just stinks, they should be free to say so without being criticized.
    Last edited by Kc61; 04-18-2012 at 11:38 PM.


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