An athlete is someone who is "a person who has a natural aptitude for physical activities." Billy Hamilton by all means is a super athlete. Does he possess all 5 tools like Josh Hamilton does? Absolutely not. But not having power doesn't mean he isn't a super athlete. All that means is he isn't a 5 tool player.Originally Posted by dougdirt
Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball - Jacques Barzun
Exactly. Wonder how Hamilton would do as a switch-hitter.....But not having power doesn't mean he isn't a super athlete. All that means is he isn't a 5 tool player.
I think the point doug is trying to make is pretty simple, and many choose to pick apart the words he's using and twist it into telling him that he's wrong. This isn't about defining what a super athlete is. Obviously Billy Hamilton is incredibly athletic in a certain regard. Agility, speed, etc. No one is questioning that. The way doug is defining athleticism is how it relates to baseball. We're talking about Billy Hamilton being a baseball player, and how well his athleticism relates to his ability to improve on the field. Being athletically able to hit a baseball very far and with power is more relevant to a player's value than his speed is. Hamilton does not have incredible strength or power, and that is going to limit him.
It's not about his ability to play other sports. In terms of overall athleticism, Hamilton's accomplishments are incredible. However, averaging 27 points a game in high schools means exactly nothing when determining how well he projects to hit a baseball 3 years from now.
I know what Doug is trying to do, but he needs to say that Billy is not a 5 tool player, or lacking the skills to be a great all around baseball player, but Billy is and always has been a super athlete.
Whoever wants to know the heart and mind of America had better learn baseball - Jacques Barzun
From an athletic standpoint, can someone just name one thing other than speed, that Hamilton can do that makes him stand out among other professional athletes? If he were truly a super athlete, this would be a really easy question to answer. I can't find one though.
This is a very wrongheaded question, Doug. The entire would calls the world's fastest man, or the world's strongest woman an elite athlete. Being a super athlete in no way suggests being well rounded.
jvs
agreed. To me, being a super athlete extends beyond the realm of baseball. Josh Hamilton may be able to mash a baseball and play superior defense, but how would he do with a golf club in his hand, or covering a WR on the backpedle. How high does he jump, what kind of endurance does he have?
What if Usain bolt grew up in the Domincan rather than Jamaica? How many baseball players come out of Jamaica? Any? What if he had grown up playing stick ball and throwing a ball against a wall to hone baseball skills rather than seeing how fast he could run? What if he toured on the AAU circuit all over the southeast as a 12-18 year old the way Josh Hamilton did? Could he have been labelled the next willie mays? We'll never know.
Josh Hamilton is an outstanding athlete, I have no doubt about that, but we have no clue how he'd fair in other sports, in places he didn't spend as much time as a youth honing skills. Every athlete's accomplishments are largely affected by their influences as a youth. Its why you don't see many 2-3 sport athletes at the highest level. At some point, you have to pick a sport an run with it, its very hard to get to the top of your sport when your dabbling with other sports at the same time.
I could care less what the entire world calls something.
If being a super athlete doesn't mean you are well rounded athletically, then I honestly don't have a clue what being a super athlete means.
I imagine Hamilton, if he wanted to, could have probably made a great quarterback (given his size and arm strength, which is elite) or a fantastic linebacker given his size, strength and speed.
I am not saying Bolt isn't, I am saying that I don't know if he is because all I have ever seen him do is run and that isn't enough for me to tell if he is a super athlete or just the fastest dude alive.What if Usain bolt grew up in the Domincan rather than Jamaica? How many baseball players come out of Jamaica? Any? What if he had grown up playing stick ball and throwing a ball against a wall to hone baseball skills rather than seeing how fast he could run? What if he toured on the AAU circuit all over the southeast as a 12-18 year old the way Josh Hamilton did? Could he have been labelled the next willie mays? We'll never know.
Sure, he hits a baseball better than Mike Jordan and a bunch of NFL/NBA/Hockey/track stars/etc... guys. He throws a baseball farther and harder than many NBA/Hockey/NFL/track stars/etc... guys. Based upon his HS accomplishments, he probably runs better routes, and covers oppossing recievers better than most MLB/Hockey/NBA/track stars/etc... guys. BAsed upon his HS accomplishments, he either shoots, or has the ability to penetrate a defense and get to a basketball hoop better than most NFL/Hockey/MLB/etc...guys.
Sean Casey, in his prime, could hit for more contact and more power than Billy currently can, and likely ever will be able to. He can do 2 things in his prime that Billy can't, does that automatically make him a better athlete? I can already hear Sean laughing at that question.
You're problem, at least how I see it, is that you're attempting to pigeon hole baseball skills into what makes a superior athlete. There is a whole array of skills outside of what's inherent to baseball that apply to any athletic venture. Truthfully, there are very few guys that give us the ability to see what they can do at more than 1 athletic venture. We'll never know what Billy could have done in college or potentially the NFL as a CB. Could he have been Deion Sanders? Probably not on the football field, but perhaps significantly better with a bat in his hand and in the field.
If we're comparing Billy to Josh and who's set of athletic skills will make a better baseball player, than Josh wins hands down. There are a lot of other areas that we have no clue about that Billy may or may not be better at than Josh.
So then really, your just guessing, b/c we have no idea if Josh Hamilton has the smarts/dedication to make a great QB. Ryan Leaf had terrific size and arm strength, didn't work out so well in the NFL. Could Josh have endured the hits upon his body playing linebacker in the NFL?
I enjoy the debate, its an answer we'll never know, but do you realize how much your first statement, and your last statement contradict each other? You guess Josh can do one thing based upon his body size and arm strength, but you don't know what Bolt can do because all you've ever seen him do is run. You can't have it both ways.
Agreed.
There is a dictionary defining it though, if you like.
Come on Doug, you are an awesome poster, but my God are you stubborn.
I think there are some meds that can clear that up.......
How about his incredible range at SS? Something tells me that someone like Todd Frazier wouldn't have a prayer making some of the plays and stops that Hamilton has so far.
He has incredible range at shortstop because he is fast.
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