Billy Hamilton: #1 on the BA Hot Sheet

[membengal]

In fairness to Doug, Hamilton doesn't look athletic:

[mth123]

Who cares if he's a great athlete if he can't get on base for the Reds? I don't.

The sports landscape is littered with guys that have been "great athletes" but couldn't find success in their sport of choice. Does that take anything away from their superior athletic qualities? No. They just weren't able to develop the skills needed to excel in their sport. Billy could very easily be one of those guys.

Best post in the entire thread and no one else noticed.

[dougdirt]

It takes more than speed to average 27 points per game in high school basketball. 32 minutes, 27 points? At 6'1"? That and his ability to play PG indicate a guy with not only speed, but exceptional hand-eye and eye-foot coordination.

As a football player, he led Mississippi 2A receivers in receptions. That indicates both speed and hand-eye coordination. Add that he also played defense (as a DB, the most difficult position in football) at a very high level (Seven interceptions indicate his hand-eye coordination as well.).

I don't know of a three-sport athlete-- check that, a first-team All-State athlete in all three sports-- that wouldn't be considered out of this world athletic, especially in a state, like Mississippi, where athletes are a dime a dozen.

If nothing else, when you Google Hamilton, every scouting report on the first three pages mentions his outstanding athleticism.

Sigh. Almost every dude playing sports at the professional level has a pretty similar resume.

Travis Mattair played basketball in college. He also plays professional baseball. No one even talks about his athleticism.

[REDblooded]

Eh, I am done with it. I have stated my case and I feel pretty comfortable with it.

I seem to remember a play pretty vividly where Hamilton shows pretty incredible ups to snag a ball that should have went over his head for a base hit...

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/3...rsuperstop.gif

yup... just doing what anybody else could do.

It's ok to admit when you're wrong.

[REDblooded]

Actually, it's endearing. Not to mention when you are right, people are more likely to give you credit for it and respect your opinion.

[dougdirt]

Actually, it's endearing. Not to mention when you are right, people are more likely to give you credit for it and respect your opinion.

I feel pretty confident that I am not wrong here.

I am not saying Hamilton isn't a very good athlete. He is. He just doesn't fall into what I consider to be some sort of super athlete. He is a very good athlete who is super fast. When I think super athlete, I think Josh Hamilton, not Billy Hamilton.

[Elam]

I haven't seen enough of Usain Bolt doing anything besides running to know if that is true or not. Neither have you I would bet. Nice try though.

I can't get over this statement. So Usian Bolt is not a super athlete because all he does is run, despite the fact he holds world and Olympic records, but Drew Stubbs is obviously a super athlete because he has above average speed, but certainly not elite speed and has hit a baseball at an unreliable rate?

I think you're misusing the word athlete in the context of baseball without giving clear cut criteria for the term and then criticizing others for not realizing those criteria. Instead you just give arbitrary examples like Josh Hamilton.

[Blitz Dorsey]

I feel pretty confident that I am not wrong here.

I am not saying Hamilton isn't a very good athlete. He is. He just doesn't fall into what I consider to be some sort of super athlete. He is a very good athlete who is super fast. When I think super athlete, I think Josh Hamilton, not Billy Hamilton.

Doug, you're pretty confident you're never wrong. But you're definitely wrong on this one. Or maybe everyone else is wrong and you're right. Nah.



Dude, it's all right to admit when you're wrong. You're one of the best posters on this board, but don't let it go to your head. It's OK to be wrong sometimes. There is no question Billy Hamilton is a "great athlete" as defined by the vast majority of Americans. Absolutely no question about it.

[dougdirt]

I can't get over this statement. So Usian Bolt is not a super athlete because all he does is run, despite the fact he holds world and Olympic records, but Drew Stubbs is obviously a super athlete because he has above average speed, but certainly not elite speed and has hit a baseball at an unreliable rate?

I think you're misusing the word athlete in the context of baseball without giving clear cut criteria for the term and then criticizing others for not realizing those criteria. Instead you just give arbitrary examples like Josh Hamilton.

No, Drew Stubbs is a super athlete because he can run really fast (though not in the same class as Bolt), he has great size and strength, can throw very well and hit a baseball really far when he does get into one. In the tools categories, Drew Stubbs has above average or better speed, arm, fielding and power.

I don't know if Usain Bolt has the coordination to even dribble a basketball. You probably don't either. Simply because he is the fastest guy in the world doesn't mean he is a super athlete. It means he is really fast. Maybe he is a super athlete. I just don't know because I have never seen him do anything besides run in a straight line or in a J shape around a track.

When I think athlete, I think of a guy who can do a whole lot of things well. When I think of a super athlete, I think of a guy who can do a whole lot of things better than other really good athletes. Comparatively, when I look at Billy Hamilton among other players in baseball, the only thing that he does that stands out is his speed. So to me, he doesn't really look like a super athlete.

[dougdirt]

Doug, you're pretty confident you're never wrong. But you're definitely wrong on this one. Or maybe everyone else is wrong and you're right. Nah.



Dude, it's all right to admit when you're wrong. You're one of the best posters on this board, but don't let it go to your head. It's OK to be wrong sometimes. There is no question Billy Hamilton is a "great athlete" as defined by the vast majority of Americans. Absolutely no question about it.

Well when you can prove I am wrong, I am here to listen. I could care less what most Americans think about what a great athlete is. It isn't their job to determine how athletic someone is compared to other professional athletes.

I really am done with this thread though. I have stated my case and why I think about it the way I do.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Well when you can prove I am wrong, I am here to listen. I could care less what most Americans think about what a great athlete is. It isn't their job to determine how athletic someone is compared to other professional athletes.

I really am done with this thread though. I have stated my case and why I think about it the way I do.

Yeah, you taking a break from this thread is probably a good idea. (Until you're ready to admit you're wrong.)

[Sea Ray]

Yeah, you taking a break from this thread is probably a good idea. (Until you're ready to admit you're wrong.)

He's stated his case very well: that Billy Hamilton is a very good athlete in general but doesn't particularly have good baseball skills. Being able to cover a WR, shoot a basketball or tackle a TE has little to do with being able to hit Matt Cain pitching or throw a baseball.

Billy Hamilton might be able to play a better CB or shooting guard than Josh Hamilton but what difference does that make in MLB?

[_Sir_Charles_]

Why is it that people can't see that Doug is setting apart the two catagories. A super athlete is someone who has insane physical skills in multiple aspects. They're fast, strong, have excellent upper and lower body strength, excellent hand eye coordination, etc. The other catagory is a guy like Bolt...he is extremely fast, but that's the only skill he has. He doesn't have excellent upper body strength or great hand eye coordination, etc. He's a one trick pony. It's one helluva trick, but still one dimensional. It's not saying he's not a great athlete, it's saying he's not in that upper class of guys who can do everything at an unbelievable level.

[PTjvs]

Why is it that people can't see that Doug is setting apart the two catagories. A super athlete is someone who has insane physical skills in multiple aspects. They're fast, strong, have excellent upper and lower body strength, excellent hand eye coordination, etc. The other catagory is a guy like Bolt...he is extremely fast, but that's the only skill he has. He doesn't have excellent upper body strength or great hand eye coordination, etc. He's a one trick pony. It's one helluva trick, but still one dimensional. It's not saying he's not a great athlete, it's saying he's not in that upper class of guys who can do everything at an unbelievable level.

Because Doug doesn't get to define what a super athlete IS. Athlete is a word that already has a definition, and 99.999% of the world would say Usain Bolt, for instance, is a Super Athlete. He doesn't meet Doug's definition, but that's because Doug's definition is arbitrary & completely made up.

jvs

[Jamz]

Well, so far I don't think there's anything to worry about with him getting on base. He has been progressing exceptionally well. If he's a smart guy, and he seems to be, he could easily turn into the most effective lead off hitter in the majors at this rate. He knows that pitchers don't want to pitch around him, and he's becoming very effective as a switch hitter. I don't think anyone in the league will be able to match his speed.

Never been more excited about a prospect to be honest.