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Thread: Billy Hamilton: #1 on the BA Hot Sheet

  1. #76
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Billy Hamilton: #1 on the BA Hot Sheet

    Quote Originally Posted by PTjvs View Post
    Agreed.

    There is a dictionary defining it though, if you like.

    Come on Doug, you are an awesome poster, but my God are you stubborn.
    Show me where super athlete is in the dictionary.

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  3. #77
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Billy Hamilton: #1 on the BA Hot Sheet

    Quote Originally Posted by medford View Post
    So then really, your just guessing, b/c we have no idea if Josh Hamilton has the smarts/dedication to make a great QB. Ryan Leaf had terrific size and arm strength, didn't work out so well in the NFL. Could Josh have endured the hits upon his body playing linebacker in the NFL?

    I enjoy the debate, its an answer we'll never know, but do you realize how much your first statement, and your last statement contradict each other? You guess Josh can do one thing based upon his body size and arm strength, but you don't know what Bolt can do because all you've ever seen him do is run. You can't have it both ways.
    Josh Hamilton has shown things that project well to other sports, in particular football where his arm strength would at least be worthy of being a top end QB or a linebacker where his size, speed and strength are comparable to guys who are playing there now. Usain Bolt hasn't, aside from his speed. How don't you see the difference?

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    Re: Billy Hamilton: #1 on the BA Hot Sheet

    Having world class speed, being able to switch hit at the professional level, and getting offered a Division I scholarship in a sport other than baseball or track = super athlete. Period.

    Michael Jordan, Tom Glavine, and Usain Bolt could each only do 1 of those. They are/were pretty good athletes.
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    Re: Billy Hamilton: #1 on the BA Hot Sheet

    You don't have to be a super athlete to be a super baseball player. You don't have to be a super baseball player to be a super athlete. This whole argument is a little bit rediculous and I think both sides are off the mark.

    Super Athlete?



    Super Baseball Player?

    @#$% my @#$%^*&

  6. #80
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    Re: Billy Hamilton: #1 on the BA Hot Sheet

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Having world class speed, being able to switch hit at the professional level, and getting offered a Division I scholarship in a sport other than baseball or track = super athlete. Period.

    Michael Jordan, Tom Glavine, and Usain Bolt could each only do 1 of those. They are/were pretty good athletes.
    Hamilton has poor hands. He is a good CB prospect because he is fast. Everything seems to be coming back to he is fast. Someone please bring something else to the table.

    I will say that the switch hitting thing is at least something, but I don't see many guys touting Lance Berkman and the likes as something specially athletic because they can switch hit. Yes, it takes athleticism to be able to do it. Never said he wasn't athletic, or even very athletic. Just that he isn't some sort of super athlete.

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    Re: Billy Hamilton: #1 on the BA Hot Sheet

    I've posted this before. Perhaps it got lost in the melee.

    How do we know Hamilton is a great athlete?

    Obviously, his speed is our first clue.

    How about the hand-eye coordination it takes to dribble a basketball, shoot a basketball, and the eye-foot coordination it takes to play defense at the highest level among an entire state known for its outstanding athletes?

    How about the hand-eye coordination to catch the most balls thrown by a quarterback from the line of scrimmage in your division, the hand-eye coordination to intercept seven passes on defense, and the eye-foot coordination it takes to swivel, cut, run routes, and break on balls as both a wide receiver and defensive back? And to do that too at the highest level in a state known for athletes?

    Athletes typically have quickness, speed, hand-eye coordination, hand-foot coordination, and the ability to move/ think ahead of opponents.

    According to his high school career (and the first part of his professional baseball career), Hamilton's hit the superfecta.
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  8. #82
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    Re: Billy Hamilton: #1 on the BA Hot Sheet

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Hamilton has poor hands.
    Not true.

    He led 2A receivers in receptions.

    He had seven interceptions as a senior.

    He was a First Team All-State point guard.

    All of these indicate a guy with great hands.

    Poor playing conditions, perhaps poor routes, a lack of focus, an unfamiliarity with positioning all play a part in the label of "poor hands."
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  9. #83
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    Re: Billy Hamilton: #1 on the BA Hot Sheet

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Not true.

    He led 2A receivers in receptions.
    Great. He could probably just outrun everyone and basket catch anything. If he had that good of hands colleges would have fawned over him as a receiver and baseball scouts wouldn't make notes that his hands aren't that good. But yeah, his high school football stats are probably more important.

    Poor playing conditions, perhaps poor routes, a lack of focus, an unfamiliarity with positioning all play a part in the label of "poor hands."
    No, his hands not really excelling are the reason he is labeled with poor hands by scouts.

  10. #84
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    Re: Billy Hamilton: #1 on the BA Hot Sheet

    I really am done after this post.

    I don't see switch hitting as something that makes someone a super athlete.

    I don't see high school stats as being something that makes someone a super athlete because nearly every professional athlete was very good at multiple sports in high school because they are among the best athletes in the world, of course they will dominate non-professional level athletes.

    I see the outstanding on the professional level things that Billy Hamilton does all related to his speed. His defense is directly related to his ability to cover more ground in a lesser time than other guys.

    The guy is a very good athlete. That isn't what I am arguing. I am arguing that he doesn't stand out athletically among other professional level athletes.

    Done this time. I swear.

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    Re: Billy Hamilton: #1 on the BA Hot Sheet

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Great. He could probably just outrun everyone and basket catch anything...


    C'mon, man. That's remarkably weak.

    He has all the tools of a super athlete. He's shown his propensity to be a super athlete in the past. He's showing it now.

    Let's try another tack.

    If you Google Billy Hamilton scouting report, how many of them mention his outstanding athletic ability as a positive? Since that's all we know of the baseball world, as we are all amateur bloggers/ web site devotees (aside from Red72), that's all we can judge him on.

    Now, if you've got a scouting report that says he's a poor athlete (or one not clearly above others), I'd like to see it. Otherwise, it's an opinion with no basis in fact.
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  12. #86
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    Re: Billy Hamilton: #1 on the BA Hot Sheet

    So is everyone on board with considering Hamilton an amazing athlete (besides Doug)?

    Lot of good football played in Mississippi. If this kid isn't an athlete, the definition of athlete might need to be changed.
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    Re: Billy Hamilton: #1 on the BA Hot Sheet

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Josh Hamilton has shown things that project well to other sports, in particular football where his arm strength would at least be worthy of being a top end QB or a linebacker where his size, speed and strength are comparable to guys who are playing there now. Usain Bolt hasn't, aside from his speed. How don't you see the difference?
    How do you know Josh Hamilton has the accuracy when throwing a fooball, or smart to be a top level QB? he's never shown it that I'm aware of. throwing a football is a different beast than throwing a baseball, there's no fear of being blindsided when throwing to the cutoff man.

    I've stood next to Josh Hamilton, and while he's a big man, he's nothing compared to the NFL/Ohio State caliber linebackers I've stood next to. Josh looks small compared to the physical mass guys like Takeo Spikes and Ray Lewis posses. How do we know Josh Hamilton has the physical endurance to handle the pounding your typical NFL linebacker takes? He certainly hasn't shown that.

    regarding usain Bolt never showing anything than the ability to run fast, that was kind of my point. Josh Hamilton has never shown the ability to throw a football, we don't know if he has the mental IQ to handle the position like your average NFL QB. He has a solid frame, but he'd have to pack on significant muscle to play linebacker in the NFL or top level college. He hasn't shown the ability to withstand the kind of hits those players give out/take. You're assuming Josh's baseball skills translate into upper level skills in the NFL, but its just that, an assumption. If you can translate his physical skills in baseball to other sports, I think the rest of Redszone has the privlege to translate Billy Hamilton's high school success and minor league skills into sports outside of baseball.

    I'm guessing you're the only person in the baseball world that would question Billy Hamilton's athletic status. At least your not affraid to stand out from the crowd; its what makes you a good poster and leads to good discussion.

  14. #88
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    Re: Billy Hamilton: #1 on the BA Hot Sheet

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    He has incredible range at shortstop because he is fast.
    Take away Hamilton's speed and you have a guy who is unremarkable otherwise.

    I would definite athleticism as a combination of speed, strength, agility and coordination -- and possibly others I'm not thinking of. Just like Pablo Sandoval's world-class hand-eye coordination or Adam Dunn's raw strength don't make them great athletes, neither does Hamilton's speed make him one.

    Hamilton has world-class speed. That speed allows him to excel in a number of areas in the game of baseball. But if we were to put Hamilton in a competition that tested a wider range of physical skills (like a decathlon), he wouldn't stand a chance against the likes of Josh Hamilton, Matt Kemp and Yoenis Cespedes (or Bo Jackson, Barry Bonds, ARod, etc.). It's not just that they have a wide range of physical abilities, but that they are excellent in all of them. And in terms of coordination, yes, hand-eye is just one kind.

    I think Billy Hamilton is an incredible athlete, but the narrowness of his ability keeps him a tier or three below the best of the best.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 04-24-2012 at 05:20 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Billy Hamilton: #1 on the BA Hot Sheet

    This thread reminds me of an argument I had a few years ago when one of my friends asked me who I thought the best athlete of my lifetime was. I said Bo Jackson and he about lost his mind and said "how can you say Bo Jackson over Michael Jordan." I of course made some comment about where a .200 batting average in AA baseball would get you to an All-Star game and things went down hill from there.

    The point is that depending on what your definition of great athlete is you can make the case for either guy. Michael Jordan had a unique elite skillset which lined up perfectly for the sport he played but in no way shape or form did he have the complete physical tools Bo Jackson had.

    So while I think it is foolish to say Billy Hamilton is not a great athlete, I think it is fair to say his success hinges upon a very unique skillset and he is not that complete package that a guy like Josh Hamilton is.

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    Re: Billy Hamilton: #1 on the BA Hot Sheet

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Take away Hamilton's speed and you have a guy who is unremarkable otherwise.
    No.

    He's an All-State level player in three sports in Mississippi, with Division I scholarship offers in both basketball and football.

    It takes more than speed to be a Division I athlete in both basketball and football.

    It takes hand-eye coordination.

    It takes eye-foot coordination.

    It takes quickness and agility.

    Put another way, were Hamilton to play basketball against any of the others you mentioned, he'd kill them. Were he to play football against them, he'd again be the better player.

    Would he win a decathlon? Probably, as the decathlon consists of at least six events in which he'd be favored to win or place highly-- the 100 meters, the long jump, the high jump, the 400 meters, the 110 hurdles, and the 1500 meters. The other guys would likely split the "heavier" events.
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