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Thread: 35 games in and Mesoraco has started back to back games twice. Problem?

  1. #1
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    35 games in and Mesoraco has started back to back games twice. Problem?

    After tonight, the Reds will have played 35 games and the Reds #1 prospect coming into the season and the #1 catching prospect in all of baseball will have had started 2 games in a row just twice all season. Does anyone else have a problem with this or am I just crazy in thinking this is just horrible handling of him? He is never going to "learn to catch" anyone other than Homer Bailey is he is never allowed to catch anyone but Homer Bailey.

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: 35 games in and Mesoraco has started back to back games twice. Problem?

    He's got a .607 OPS, Doug. It's not like he's making the most of his opportunities.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Moderator Tommyjohn25's Avatar
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    Re: 35 games in and Mesoraco has started back to back games twice. Problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    He's got a .607 OPS, Doug. It's not like he's making the most of his opportunities.
    IMO that goes hand-in-hand with not playing enough.

    I don't have a problem with Hanigan, I like him in fact, but they really have to give Mes a chance to settle into a groove.
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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: 35 games in and Mesoraco has started back to back games twice. Problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp View Post
    He's got a .607 OPS, Doug. It's not like he's making the most of his opportunities.
    Tough to get going when you never get more than 8 at bats in a week. He is basically a pinch hitter, except he only gets to bat when Homer Bailey is on the mound and doesn't get his strengths picked up like other pinch hitters do.

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    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: 35 games in and Mesoraco has started back to back games twice. Problem?

    I think it's more of a credit to how Hanigan is viewed defensively. The Reds pitching has been great, and I'm sure around th clubhouse Hanigan gets quite a bit of credit for it. With the Reds trying to contend right now, I don't think it's insane that he gets lots of usage with pitchers that are comfortable with him. Mes will start getitng more playing time likely when he substantially earns it, and I'm guessing, that will happen at some point this year. I'm not saying he stinks because of his low OPS right now or anything, but sometimes they need to see the results first to displace a catcher that is working well with the staff.

    I hear the concern, it's always great to use the top prospect as much as possible to enhance the development, but being a catcher, it's not as black and white. He is still getting good experience working with major league pitchers and major league staff. It's one of those situations that I'm simply fine letting it play out, mix each guy in, and let it come naturally when Mes is clearly the best option.

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: 35 games in and Mesoraco has started back to back games twice. Problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    I hear the concern, it's always great to use the top prospect as much as possible to enhance the development, but being a catcher, it's not as black and white. He is still getting good experience working with major league pitchers and major league staff. It's one of those situations that I'm simply fine letting it play out, mix each guy in, and let it come naturally when Mes is clearly the best option.
    No, he is getting good experience working with Homer Bailey and the relievers three times every two weeks.

    If Mesoraco is going to enhance his development, shouldn't he catch someone else every now and again? How is he going to 'learn to catch' Cueto, Arroyo or Latos if he, you know, has to watch from the bench and not catch them?

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    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: 35 games in and Mesoraco has started back to back games twice. Problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommyjohn25 View Post
    IMO that goes hand-in-hand with not playing enough.

    I don't have a problem with Hanigan, I like him in fact, but they really have to give Mes a chance to settle into a groove.
    There are a lot of guys in the history of this league that have hit well playing a lot less than Mesoraco. He starts twice a week, that's a heck of a lot better than the guys that pinch-hit once a night at most.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: 35 games in and Mesoraco has started back to back games twice. Problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    I think it's more of a credit to how Hanigan is viewed defensively. The Reds pitching has been great, and I'm sure around th clubhouse Hanigan gets quite a bit of credit for it. With the Reds trying to contend right now, I don't think it's insane that he gets lots of usage with pitchers that are comfortable with him. Mes will start getitng more playing time likely when he substantially earns it, and I'm guessing, that will happen at some point this year.
    Beat me to it. This is mostly about Ryan Hanigan playing very well. If Mesoraco was getting nearly every-day PT, I'm sure he would be doing better. But right now, he's a rookie and the Reds have a pretty damn good veteran catcher in front of him. Nothing wrong with that. They'll platoon next year too (final year of Hanny's deal).

    And while we all know how good Hanigan is defensively and especially calling a game, let's not sell him short as a hitter. This is a guy that gives professional at-bats every time he steps to the plate. He's never an easy out. Really lacks power, but he's never an easy out.

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    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: 35 games in and Mesoraco has started back to back games twice. Problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    No, he is getting good experience working with Homer Bailey and the relievers three times every two weeks.

    If Mesoraco is going to enhance his development, shouldn't he catch someone else every now and again? How is he going to 'learn to catch' Cueto, Arroyo or Latos if he, you know, has to watch from the bench and not catch them?
    I'm sure he does more work than in games.....

    This isn't all about his development. They are trying to win games too. He'll eventually earn more playing time.... why does everything have to be handed to him on a silver platter? Again, I'm sure he is getting good experience working with these guys behind the scenes. Just because he isn't playing games everyday like in AAA does not mean he is getting no experience.

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    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: 35 games in and Mesoraco has started back to back games twice. Problem?

    Rookie catcher, .607 OPS, best pitching in years for the reds (cross fingers) yet it's befuddling to some?

    Ok...

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    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: 35 games in and Mesoraco has started back to back games twice. Problem?

    I think the fact that Hannigan is hitting well and the Reds have literally been starved for offense plays a part in the decision too.

    Let's say hypothetically that Ludwick was tearing it up and we had the 2010 version of Stubbs. Then it becomes a lot easier to carry Mes' slow offensive start.

    Dusty has been criticized in the past for putting "building a player's confidence" over winning (and rightfully so), but he's really managing differently this year, IMO. He's pulling out all the stops to win every game.
    You can particularly see him more aggressively pulling starters and relievers now, as opposed to years past, when he routinely left them in too long.
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    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: 35 games in and Mesoraco has started back to back games twice. Problem?

    It's not like Hanigan is an offensive slug or anything. Since he came into the league, the following catchers have a higher OBP:

    Joe Mauer
    AJ Ellis (400 at bats).

    Hard to believe isn't it?

    On a per at bat basis, Hanigan is in the ball park with essentially every non-elite catcher in regards to WAR. A catcher with the ability to get to 1st base consistently, and field the position admirably has about 95% of the puzzle figured out.

    This is not the old situations where Baker lets Juan Castro pinch hit for Hamilton.... I think it's more like Hatteberg playing over Votto when Votto was developing in AAA. Decent player starting, at some point, if the prospect is the real deal, he will make it obvious enough to merit increased playing time. Mes has not done so yet, until then, the player with the strong major league resume is going to get priority. I don't have a problem with it.
    Last edited by Patrick Bateman; 05-15-2012 at 06:16 PM.

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    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: 35 games in and Mesoraco has started back to back games twice. Problem?

    DP

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    Re: 35 games in and Mesoraco has started back to back games twice. Problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    If Mesoraco is going to enhance his development, shouldn't he catch someone else every now and again? How is he going to 'learn to catch' Cueto, Arroyo or Latos if he, you know, has to watch from the bench and not catch them?
    On the other hand, if the goal is to win games, don't you go with the catcher who your top pitchers have the greatest comfort level with?
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    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: 35 games in and Mesoraco has started back to back games twice. Problem?

    I feel much more comfortable with Hanigan behind the plate, but I do wish Mez could get some more AB's. I think we might see him DH soon, which will be good. To my knowledge he's actually pretty good at hitting RHP, so having him hit cleanup in the future would solve a big, big issue.
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