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Thread: Joe Maddon and his unconventional lineups

  1. #1
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Joe Maddon and his unconventional lineups

    From CBS Sports:

    For the second straight game, Carlos Pena is batting leadoff for the Rays. In the same lineup, Drew Sutton is hitting cleanup (via Marc Topkin on Twitter).

    Pena is a first baseman with a .215 batting aveage, 55 strikeouts in 44 games, only 26 career stolen bases (in 1,270 games) and good power. Conventional wisdom would say that leadoff is the absolute last place to bat Pena.

    But he walks a lot. His 29 walks and five hit-by-pitches this season give him a .354 on-base percentage, basically right in line with his career .352 mark.
    http://www.cbssports.com/general/blo...tional-lineups

    That's awesome. I love Joe Maddon. How many managers would bat their first baseman in the leadoff spot? It's a great move, as Pena is known for his ability to get on base. Who cares that he lacks great speed, he gets on base and that's all the matters in the leadoff spot. I wish Dusty would follow suit and bat Ryan Hanigan leadoff or second on days when he starts.

    Btw, Drew Sutton, batting 4th is 1-for-1 with a double and a walk today.

    Joe Maddon has to be the most out-of-the-box thinking manager in baseball today. I hope after Dusty is gone the Reds take a serious look at Dave Martinez, the bench coach of the Rays. Surely some of Maddon has rubbed off on him.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

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  3. #2
    Member chicoruiz's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon and his unconventional lineups

    I love unconventional lineups too... I just hope that the first time the Rays go into a slump the press and the fan base don't use the lineups a a stick to beat him with. We've all seen it happen..then the players will turn on him, saying "I can't get in the groove because I don't know where I'll be in the lineup from day to day, and that's why I'm hitting .220", and garbage like that. All is sweetness and light now, because they're winning.
    "In baseball, you don't know nothin'"...Yogi Berra

  4. #3
    Haunted by walks
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    Re: Joe Maddon and his unconventional lineups

    I remember a manager who batted Adam Dunn in the leadoff spot.

    http://reds.enquirer.com/2003/06/08/wwwred1dunn8.html

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    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon and his unconventional lineups

    Quote Originally Posted by BCubb2003 View Post
    I remember a manager who batted Adam Dunn in the leadoff spot.

    http://reds.enquirer.com/2003/06/08/wwwred1dunn8.html
    I blame Bob Boone.
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  6. #5
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon and his unconventional lineups

    Interestingly enough, every team behind TB in the AL in runs scored has a lesser team OPS than they do. Which begs the question, have Maddon's lineups made a difference?

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    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon and his unconventional lineups

    Pena's .210 average is much less frustrating when it's not batting 3, 4, or 5. Leadoff isn't such a bad spot.

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    Re: Joe Maddon and his unconventional lineups

    But how will Matt Joyce ever get anything to hit if Drew Sutton is batting behind him?
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
    ---Joe Posnanski

  9. #8
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon and his unconventional lineups

    Makes me wonder about the logistics of being a "good" new school manager. Not sure to what extent Bob Boone was playing by the same rules as Madden, but maybe it was not his lineups -- but his maniacal tweaking of other parts of the game like bullpen roles -- that led to his ineffectiveness? Perhaps Maddon knows when to tweak creatively and when to have a steady hand -- surely something related to gut instinct as much as it is to knowing the right situational stats on a case-by-case basis? In other words, you can maximize your odds in poker by the latest tricks of the trade, but you've also got to know when to fold 'em, when to hold 'em, right?

    OTOH, maybe Boone was a genius after all, and he just didn't have the pitching and defense that Maddon clearly does now.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  10. #9
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon and his unconventional lineups

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post

    OTOH, maybe Boone was a genius after all, and he just didn't have the pitching and defense that Maddon clearly does now.
    Is it any question that Boone didn't have the pitching or defense that Maddon does?

  11. #10
    Knowledge Is Good Big Klu's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon and his unconventional lineups

    Jerry Narron batted Scott Hatteberg in the leadoff spot in a number of games in 2007.
    Eric Stratton, Rush Chairman. Damn glad to meet ya.

  12. #11
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon and his unconventional lineups

    I think Votto hit leadoff a few games back in 2008
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  13. #12
    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon and his unconventional lineups

    Paul Householder hit leadoff some too. But he couldn't hit anywhere you put him.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

  14. #13
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Joe Maddon and his unconventional lineups

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Is it any question that Boone didn't have the pitching or defense that Maddon does?
    No. Maybe I misphrased that idea. What I meant to say is that IF Boone had had a better D and pitching, maybe his lineup tinkering would have looked like a smart thing to do -- like Maddon's does now.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013


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