Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 89

Thread: This loss is on Dusty ...

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Grantham, PA
    Posts
    281

    This loss is on Dusty ...

    5/30/12
    You win a third of your games, you lose a third of your games, it is the other third ...

    I don't like Dusty as a manager ... I will preface that before everyone cites the team's record and so on. But I disagree, fundamentally with Dusty's managing tonight primarily with sitting Joey Votto.

    You can look at the overload of consecutive righties. You can also look at the Pirates as a divisional opponent.

    I have a problem with sitting Joey Votto tonight especially with Cueto pitching. I have no problem with the two consecutive days rest. I think mentally it won't feel like that much of a rest because he had to come in with the game on the line anyway. I also disagree with using him as a PHer over Frazier instead of Miggy.

    But my main issue and reason I think it is Baker's fault we lost the game tonight is this:

    When your best pitcher, especially a young developing pitcher, is on the mound you want to have your best team out there. I think Dusty thinks it is a good time to give Votto a break because you have your best pitcher out there and a good shot at a win. I disagree with this philosophy fundamentally. When your best pitcher is out there you want your best offense to support him.

    1. Looking at the game in hindsight chances are the Reds would have won with Votto.

    2. When you have your best pitcher out there against an average team with an average pitcher you are facing - you need to make sure you get that win.

    3. When you put Cueto in that situation he might feel like he has to pitch perfect to overcome his best hitter not being in the line-up. Give him your best line-up and it allows him to ease his mind and pitch more at ease. Seasons are long for pitchers too. When you have to go out and pitch great every game it can wear your pitcher out.

    4. In terms of wins and losses - try to make sure that your Ace is getting every opportunity to get a win. He is the one who needs the confidence when it comes to the postseason. Nothing is worse than seeing a guy with a 2.10 ERA have a record of 11-10.

    5. Give Joey V. a rest on a day that the Reds are pitching their worst pitcher.

    All in all I thought tonight's loss ultimately came down to Joey V. not being in the game. Managers aren't perfect and they have to make decisions, but I think tonight's decision to rest Votto against a division opponent with your Ace on the hill was a managerial flaw. And we lost the game not because of a mistake (there were many reasons that the Reds did not win the game) or a bad in game decision, I think we lost the game because a fundamental flaw in managing.
    Last edited by mu4103; 05-30-2012 at 11:36 PM.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Grantham, PA
    Posts
    281

    Re: This loss is on Dusty ...

    I am aware that I appear to be drunk and mentally handicapped in my wording and writing above. Unfortunately, I am not the former and only partially of the latter.

  4. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Cuyahoga Falls Ohio
    Posts
    769

    Re: This loss is on Dusty ...

    the Reds will sometime again win a World Series, but it wont be with dusty baker as manager. He better be gone after this season or we can expect more failure

  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,827

    Re: This loss is on Dusty ...

    Votto almost never gets a day off. The decision to sit him today wasn't just Dusty's, it was also Votto's since they discussed when would be the best time for him. He hits like .400 in Houston so to connect it to an off day it made sense for it to be tonight. You'd like to think Cueto vs. Burnett is a clear advantage to us with or without Votto, it just wasn't tonight.

    He can't play every day of his career tho we want him to, obviously whenever he sits it's gonna hurt. It's still gonna happen tho...

  6. #5
    Member Ironman92's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    3,571
    If he hits .400 in Houston that would rejuvenate him anyways.

    Votto has the wiring to play every day....he gets crabby but he focuses well during those times.

    Now Stubbs getting 44/45 starts....that bothers me a little

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,827

    Re: This loss is on Dusty ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironman92 View Post
    If he hits .400 in Houston that would rejuvenate him anyways.

    Votto has the wiring to play every day....he gets crabby but he focuses well during those times.

    Now Stubbs getting 44/45 starts....that bothers me a little
    Throughout the course of a season Votto may get 2 or 3 games off. Dusty also gets Votto's input on when those games will be, if he thinks it's time to take one then I say we find a way to win without him. It does not happen often.

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    marietta,oh
    Posts
    270

    Re: This loss is on Dusty ...

    With the very weak bench they have, when one guy sits the lineup goes to crap. It seems like far too many times Dusty is willing to pencil in pathetic lineups in order to rest 25-30 year old players. In my opinion every single game is crucial but he doesnt seem to manage that way.

  9. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,827

    Re: This loss is on Dusty ...

    Quote Originally Posted by mikemo14 View Post
    With the very weak bench they have, when one guy sits the lineup goes to crap. It seems like far too many times Dusty is willing to pencil in pathetic lineups in order to rest 25-30 year old players. In my opinion every single game is crucial but he doesnt seem to manage that way.
    That's a bench problem, not a Dusty problem. You cannot hide guys on your bench or in your bullpen, that's an easy way to wear your team out and/or get guys hurt. If they're up here they have to be able to play. Unfortunately we have a few who aren't very good.

  10. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Bridgetown
    Posts
    1,508

    Re: This loss is on Dusty ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stray View Post
    That's a bench problem, not a Dusty problem. You cannot hide guys on your bench or in your bullpen, that's an easy way to wear your team out and/or get guys hurt. If they're up here they have to be able to play. Unfortunately we have a few who aren't very good.
    this

    we had chance after chance. i had no problem with votto getting a day off.

    he batted in the 9th and guess what? we still had a chance

  11. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Umm...Bama
    Posts
    764

    Re: This loss is on Dusty ...

    I didn't have a problem with him sitting before the game and I don't have a problem with him having sat after losing the game.

  12. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,666

    Re: This loss is on Dusty ...

    Here's an idea maybe our "ace" should have pitched like an one and we would have won...

  13. #12
    I don't want to grow up Red Raindog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Northern Indiana
    Posts
    1,006

    Re: This loss is on Dusty ...

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    Here's an idea maybe our "ace" should have pitched like an one and we would have won...
    or the offense just might have given him some support.
    The older I get - the better I was

    and yes - I hate the Cardinals (Reds fan since 1958)

  14. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    718

    Re: This loss is on Dusty ...

    Quote Originally Posted by brm7675 View Post
    Here's an idea maybe our "ace" should have pitched like an one and we would have won...
    *5 hits, 2 runs (both earned), in 7 innings? He walked more than his usual but it wasn't a bad outing.

    *Votto wanted the day off and the bench couldn't step up.

    *Burnett has been throwing well aside from one terrible outing.

    It's a loss that stings, especially since it was a division series loss, but come on. You can't pin it on J.C. when the Reds only managed 4 hits.

  15. #14
    We are back! Assembly Hall's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Warsaw, IN
    Posts
    742

    Re: This loss is on Dusty ...

    I have no problem with Votto getting the night off myself. I think it more appropriate when the "ace" is on the mound. However, it aint like Burnett was pitching his first major league game. The guy can pitch. Rubber game of a three game series against a division opponent, an off day on Thursday, a three game series against another division opponent on the road where Joey hits extremely well, and an off day on Monday. I question the timing of it.
    ...and this one belongs to the Reds.

  16. #15
    Member Moosie52's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Posts
    577

    Re: This loss is on Dusty ...

    Costanzo isn't up to playing first in the big leagues.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25